Shiriagari Kotobuki × Masayuki Furukawa [Part 1]

Hello, I'm Keita Kusaka from the Kansai Branch Creative Planning Bureau (hereafter, Kansai Crea). Starting this issue, I'll be leading "Kansai Crea News." I'll be sharing the appeal and the absurdity of Kansai Crea via Web Dentsu News. For the first installment, we're diving straight into VIP territory! A conversation between Shiriagari Kotobuki and Kansai Crea's Creative Director Masayuki Furukawa. The conversation ranges from how they met, their respective work, to discussions on expression—what is surreal? What is nonsense? Initially, we planned to hold the interview in some conference room, but decided that rambling over drinks would be more "authentic." So, we talked for four hours at an izakaya in Shibuya. It was fun, but transcribing it was a nightmare, right? Let's condense the best bits and dive right in. Here we go.

How They Met

Kusaka: First, tell us how you two met.

Furukawa: It started with work for Akagi Dairy. We used Shiriagari Kotobuki's video work "Yurume~shon" for a commercial.

Akagi Dairy CM Video: http://youtu.be/2i77bt9ryiI

Kusaka:What did you think when you heard about it?

Shiriagari Kotobuki: Finally, it's here!

Everyone: (laughs)

Shiriagari Kotobuki: It took about five years after it came out.

Kusaka: It had over a million views and a huge online response, right?

Furukawa: Still, we were just borrowing something that already existed... When we pitched 'Yurume~shon,' it only had about 1,000 views on YouTube. If it had already hit a million, we probably wouldn't have approached them—it would've felt like bringing up something everyone already knew. I thought, "Why doesn't everyone know about this awesome thing?!" I was sure it would be a hit if we made it into a commercial.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: The finished product was great too.

Furukawa: When I pitched it to the client's president, he said, "This concept feels really fragile. The visuals are shaky, and the message isn't quite there... That's exactly why I like it!"

Shiriagari Kotobuki: What a great president.

Furukawa: I was blown away. We sang, "It'd be weird if sales actually went up with this commercial," and then sales shot up 250%.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: That's incredible. Must have been so satisfying.

Furukawa: During production, we prepared about 25 types of lyrics and had four singers perform each one... We got so confused about what was right... In the end, we narrowed it down to four types.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: You made so many! But you might have gotten all kinds of requests, right? Like, "Tell us more about the product!"

Furukawa: If we'd emphasized rigid product features like that, it might have ruined the inherent "laid-back charm" of the work itself.

Kusaka: What would you have done if there had been requests?

Furukawa: Hmm. I think I would have reconsidered everything. In my thirties, I tried to reject everything like that. "This is the best!" I'd insist. So I'd desperately try to persuade the client. But clients don't want to be persuaded. They're paying money, and they're working hard on the product too. So it rarely went well. Now, I listen carefully to requests and reconsider things. And sometimes, after presenting new ideas, they come to appreciate the merits of the idea we initially thought was good.

Kusaka: Shiriaragi-san, you also have interactions with editors, right?

Shiriagari Kotobuki: Hardly at all. Even if it's not interesting, I just silently bring the manuscript over. It's like handing over a corpse (laughs).

Kusaka: Did you interact frequently with editors when you were younger?

Shiriagari Kotobuki: No, it's been like this since I was young.

What We Learn from Manga Introduction

Furukawa: I cover all that in detail in this book! I think everyone involved in advertising should read it! It's like all the answers to our struggles are written right here.

Manga for People Who Want to Express Themselves by Shiriaragi Kotobuki (Kodansha)

 

Shiriagari Kotobuki: This book might not just be for manga artists, but also for designers and planners.

Furukawa: I really think so. It seems perfect for our line of work.

Kusaka: But you bought this just before coming here, right?

Furukawa: No way! I bought it ages ago and read it three times! See, Shirigarashi-san signed it here. I got it during a job before!

Shiriagari Kotobuki: I don't remember signing it (laughs).

Furukawa: What really stuck with me was the story about the "Beast" and the "Trainer." It says two types of people are needed to make manga. There's the "Beast," who's always thinking weird things and you never know what they'll do next, and the "Trainer," who takes care of that troublesome Beast. I think replacing "Beast" and "Trainer" with "advertising planner" makes this incredibly useful. Maybe inside me, there's a "I wanna do something crazy!" beast and a "We gotta make this a proper business" trainer. And I end up wondering if I should be the beast or the trainer. But this book clearly states: the beast is more important. Because without the beast, the trainer has nothing to show the audience. You can't just keep balancing things and training yourself. In that sense, excellent salespeople are our wonderful trainers, and they're crucial. In manga terms, the editor is the trainer, right?

Shiriagari Kotobuki: Exactly.

Furukawa: Also, finding that overlap between what you want to draw and what the world demands. That's where we struggle too. It's like what our senior, Nobuhiro Nakaji, said: "Find the overlap between the client, yourself, and the world." He called that overlap "the idea." I was shocked to realize it meant the same thing.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: But you know, when you become a freelance manga artist, you start to lose sight of what society or readers actually want. Anno Hideaki from Evangelion says you should just create the intersection between what you want and what sells, but the problem is, you don't know what society wants.

Furukawa: The tunnel analogy was also striking. "It's like digging tunnels between what readers want and what you want to write. If you break through, it doesn't matter which direction you dug from." Breaking through is what matters, no matter which way you dig—that gives me courage.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: In my case, I often dig from the side of what I want to draw. Sometimes I dig all the way through, but often when I break through, there's no one there... It's really lonely. The thing I wanted to convey most was probably the last line: "Draw whatever you want, as naturally as breathing."

Furukawa: Whoa... We need to plan like we breathe too!

Twists and Turns

Kusaka: Shirigarashi-san, you were in Kirin Beer's advertising department, right?

Shiriagari Kotobuki: I was there until I was 36. Looking back, it was fun. It was truly the golden age of advertising, like with Seibu. Compared to other things, advertising really shone. I got to work with famous creators like Shigesato Itoi. Even in meetings, I'd spout off opinions like I knew what I was talking about, but inside I was freaking out. But after quitting advertising, I realized it was a good world. Advertising has clear rules. If it sells, you win. It's not about self-expression or social justice. If it sells, you win. Manga, though... you have to make your own rules. That's the problem. After quitting the company, the next morning, I felt like I'd turned into water. Before, the company was a container, and I just had to play my role inside it. But without that container, if you don't do anything, you just seep into the tatami mats. That's no good. So you have to choose: either make your own vessel, or evaporate and float around freely like air.

Furukawa: Did you pick and choose the work you took on?

Shiriagari Kotobuki: No, I was like, "I'll do anything." Before quitting, I had drinks with Mr. Miyata (Satoru) from the design firm Draft. He told me, "Just do what you love. When it's something you love, you'll do it better than others, and your level will rise. That's how work comes to you. You don't have to do things you hate." But I didn't know what I loved. I just thought, "Something easy would be nice." Still, I figured I had to step up to the plate.

Furukawa: Stepping up to the plate really is important, isn't it?

Shiriagari Kotobuki: Being in the batter's box is what lets you hit home runs or singles or whatever.

Furukawa: Even in tough at-bats, sometimes you step up and make an unexpectedly good hit.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: Just getting a good hit means you get another turn at bat.

Furukawa: Even if you don't hit a home run...

Kusaka: But if the hits don't keep coming, doesn't that make you worry?

Furukawa: No, I keep making solid contact... I tell myself it just went to a bad spot, but I was hitting it squarely (laughs)...

Shiriagari Kotobuki: You can tell by the sound, you can tell by the sound. Man, it makes me want to create something even more interesting. I'll try harder too. But even if I try, I can't always make something good.

Kusaka: How did you end up at Dentsu Inc., Furukawa-san?

 

Furukawa: When I was a student, I worked part-time as a bartender at a long-established bar in Shinsaibashi. I figured I'd probably just keep bartending for the rest of my life. My seniors were branching out on their own, so I thought I'd do the same. Then a customer told me about the advertising industry. I got interested, switched jobs, and found it fascinating. I realized that what I was trying to do behind the bar—make customers happy—could be done with copywriting, and suddenly the whole world could be happy. Well, it wasn't that simple... I spent two and a half years at a production company, then several years at an agency, before joining Dentsu Inc.

"Being rare"

Shiriagari Kotobuki: What kind of presence is Mr. Furukawa within the company?

Kusaka: The person who truly carries on the DNA of the Horii Group (※), I suppose.

Furukawa: Ugh... that's a heavy burden to carry... Horii-san picked me up and got me into Dentsu Inc.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: What makes Horii-san different? From the outside, we only see the comedy and surface stuff.

Furukawa: His fundamental belief is "No one wants to see ads." And "That's exactly why we have to create services that make people see them." He says, "If an ad isn't seen, it's worth zero points. You have to make them turn their heads; you have to stand out." In a word, his service mentality and persistence are extraordinary. Both toward clients and in the creative process.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: Putting black on white makes it stand out, and putting white on black makes it stand out too, but it's not that simple, right? It's not just about being weird or rare for the sake of it. There has to be solid reality there.

Furukawa: Exactly, it's not just about being outlandish. Also, what Mr. Horii said was, "Even if something completely new is impossible, just being a little unusual is good enough." He seemed to be lowering the mental hurdle for us like that.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: You know, ever since I debuted, I hated having to show my identity or individuality, so I kept changing my art style every time I drew. Manga artists have their own unique styles. For example, gag manga artists have to draw funny stuff, but I just did whatever I felt like, never really finishing anything, just drifting around as a B-grade artist. People can't just keep doing the same thing; they have to either branch out horizontally and do something unusual, or move vertically and raise their quality. I just kept branching out horizontally. In a way, it was incredibly fortunate, but now being B-grade is getting tough. What's unusual in manga might be commonplace in art or trite in novels. So you hit a wall. Then you think, "It's the internet age! New tech! Let's try something unusual!" But your senses just can't keep up. You can't beat the young folks.

Furukawa: I feel like the ones who survive are those whose output stems from their way of life and thinking, ultimately becoming their individuality. It's not so much about a technique being new and unprecedented, but more about someone having a different, compelling way of seeing things! That's what makes them strong, I think.

Kusaka: So, people who live outrageous lives produce more interesting work?

Furukawa: I don't know... but in our team, there's this unpleasant rule: happy people can't make good stuff. Still, I think you need that period of frustration where nothing you do works.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: Failed stuff is interesting, right? Like 'Yurume~shon'. Imperfection is what makes it good. Like, "This guy's lacking," or "This guy's overdoing it." Life, you see, is forever trying to fill those gaps. Once it's complete, it dies. Imperfection is what makes life life.

Furukawa: Everyone has their own shortcomings, and we all act like we don't have them. But it's better to just say, "Yeah, I'm lacking." There was a moment when I thought, "It's okay if I can't do something. I'll just do what I can," and I felt relieved.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: It's not just about manga, but I feel like there's this intense demand for perfection and quality... almost to an excessive degree. Everyone's aiming for the perfect, the top. But I think that's also a reflection of anxiety. Like, isn't it bad to be lacking or unskilled? Don't we have to aim for 100 points? Or maybe it's just an era where survival, or effort, or sheer hard work gets valued.

Furukawa: Kimura Mitsuki from Yūka Dan is incredibly skilled at both singing and guitar, but when he drinks, he says, "You can't get too good. You'll just become average, right? And then there'll always be someone better. So I try hard not to get too good. Hehehe." Kimura-san made a striking debut with Yūka Dan while still a student and went major, but they disbanded. Still, he kept singing, and now the wave is coming again. As Kimura-san says, "If you just stay in the same place, doing what you love and believe in, the waves of the world just hit you or pull back. That happens a few times in your life, right?"

Shiriagari Kotobuki: I wonder if my wave will come in ten years (laughs).

Surreal & Nonsense

 

Shiriagari Kotobuki: People say my manga is surreal. So I thought, what exactly is surreal? It's when "the thread of causality is severed." In other words, it's disconnected.

So unrelated things happen, or things you wonder "why?" about meet. But sometimes they meet at just the perfect timing, perfect speed, perfect distance – like the moon catching Earth's orbit. When you can capture that, it's incredibly satisfying.

Furukawa: Thinking about it that way, nonsense and surrealism are the least suitable for advertising. The thread of causality can't be severed. Yet sometimes, things that seem to have that severed thread become advertising. Things that say nothing, yet seem to say something. They work better as ads than things that try desperately to say something but end up saying nothing. I feel like current ads show the thread of causality too clearly, becoming predictable and harmonized. Advertising is a mass of causality. But even when the causality isn't visible, the audience still follows along.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: Yeah, exactly. Another thing to watch out for is that viewers also see the causality outside the ad. They see that the guy playing the nice guy in the commercial is actually a singer or a famous celebrity in real life. They grasp things from a broad, shallow perspective.

Furukawa: Plus, pushing causality too far can become nonsensical, right? Like ads where wearing this bracelet boosts your financial luck and romantic luck, and suddenly you're surrounded by stacks of cash and beautiful women (laughs).

Kusaka: In 'Yaji Kida in DEEP' (Enterbrain), you depict these grand-scale scenes where causality breaks down. What was your mindset when drawing those?

Shiriagari Kotobuki: I just want to go drinking soon.

Kusaka: Eh?!

Furukawa: I feel that way sometimes too... actually, every day. I'm not the type who can stay up too late... I just think, "I'll come up with something tomorrow," and immediately escape reality.

Shiriagari Kotobuki: You can't push yourself for two straight hours. Actually, lately I can't even manage two hours. I'm playing social media games while drawing, and enemies attack right away. I just can't concentrate!

( Continued in Part 2 )

※Hori Group: A creative collective led by Hirotsugu Hori, known for producing groundbreaking hit commercials like KINCHO and Kansai Electric Safety Association, which shaped the major creative trends in the Kansai region.