Popular YouTubers Discuss: A Unique World of Online Video Different from TV or Theater ~ Theatrical Group Squash

HIKAKIN, Hajime Syacho, Jet Daisuke... Do these names ring a bell? They are the so-called "YouTubers" who enjoy immense popularity on YouTube. Today, people worldwide are gaining large audiences on video sites like YouTube, wielding influence and attracting attention. This time, we spoke with four members of the theater troupe SKASH, who are highly regarded for their unique drama videos in the world of internet video.
(Interviewer: Yuzo Ono, Planning Promotion Department Manager, Dentsu Digital Inc. Business Bureau)
　

Theatre Group Squash
A popular four-member unit known for their drama videos on YouTube.
Won the "YouTube NextUp" and "YouTube Video Awards Japan" in 2011. Their YouTube Space Tokyo opening project "Stalking Vampire ~The Man in the Gap~" became a massive hit with over 7 million cumulative views. Their work "New use of kendama" was also featured on Dutch public broadcasting.
　

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■ Diving into the world of online videos despite reservations

──You previously stated, "(Initially) I felt gloomy, thinking 'So we finally have to get involved with the internet too...'" Why did you feel resistance when starting YouTube?

Squash: We're theater people, so we're analog. We didn't even own computers and had no knowledge about them. When an acquaintance who posted on YouTube suggested it, I told the troupe we should try it, but it felt like a huge burden.

──You mentioned that back then, "we treated YouTube as something inferior to theater." What was that feeling like?

Squash: We'd been doing theater for so long, pouring our hearts into creating stage productions. But with little knowledge about video, I just couldn't grasp the feeling of pouring everything into making something seriously. We couldn't beat movies anyway.

──So it felt like neither winning against film nor being theater, just half-hearted.

Squash: Exactly. With theater, I felt confident I could compete on equal footing with professionals. But with video, my motivation was just to come up with ideas and get something out there. When I first started YouTube, I was solely focused on how to "bait" users into clicking—just chasing what would get attention. I researched what kind of videos got more views. For example, back then, video thumbnails showed a scene from the middle of the clip, so I'd deliberately put intense scenes around that point. The views shot up, and I started mistakenly thinking this was the only way. The increased views also brought in income.

──When videos you didn't put much effort into started getting more views, didn't you start looking down on the internet more?

Squash: I still grapple with that dilemma. Getting people to watch your videos ultimately comes down to technique, so if you only do what you like, you might not grow. Sometimes your video views increase but your channel subscribers don't—that just means you've "bait-and-switched" them. Increasing subscribers is more beneficial for us, so now we basically focus on subscriber growth.

── At one point, you made a lot of clickbait videos, which created a "backlash" online. What was that like?

Squash: The scariest moment was when we uploaded something to NicoNico Douga. We posted an extreme video where we shot a bunch of BB pellets into our mouths and then spit them all out at once. That sparked a huge backlash – people were furious about what we did with the spit-out pellets. The BBS we were active on at the time got completely flooded with hate comments, top to bottom. My channel got flooded with emails too. Actually, NicoNico has this aspect where "getting flamed can hype things up," but we didn't know that back then.

──It feels like there was a gap between what you wanted to do and online videos from the start. Is that gap still there today?

Squash: It's always there. We still don't have the answer to how to get people to watch the videos we want them to see.

■ Online videos are becoming a cultural staple overseas

──After the earthquake, you observed online movements and reevaluated YouTube's strengths, right?

Squash: Some of our troupe members were disaster victims, so that was when we first seriously considered using it. We made a video to solicit relief supplies. The response was unexpectedly positive; even people who hadn't watched our videos before found them through searches and sent things. Before that, our videos felt like vague promotional tools for theater—criticism or praise didn't really resonate. But this experience showed us another form of communication existed, and it fundamentally changed our perspective.

──Didn't you have any expectations early on, like using the internet to create new forms of theater?

Squash: No, we didn't. Our approach was to deliver the raw experience of theater, sharing that space to create a single work. The internet felt like it lacked that human warmth. But our experience during the earthquake, combined with timely advice from Google suggesting we take it more seriously, made us start properly considering the internet too.

──Are there any YouTubers you're paying attention to, either domestically or internationally?

Squash: What bothers me most is how lame the phrase "YouTuber" sounds (laughs). Overseas, I often watch channels like "RocketJump" and "CorridorDigital" that use VFX. Their CG is incredible, with a quality that amateurs can't achieve, and it's customized specifically for YouTube. In Japan, there's a perception that YouTube videos are entertaining but lower quality compared to movies or TV. These channels, however, match the quality of film. In Japan today, I feel like Squash Theatre should be doing this, but we haven't quite managed to pull it off yet – that's our struggle.

──True, among famous Japanese YouTubers, Squash is pretty much the only one creating story-driven content. Most others just do product reviews like "I recently bought this." Seeing how overseas content is mostly story-based and high-quality makes you wonder if Japanese online videos are okay.

Squash: Exactly! Thinking about the future, I feel it's critical that storytelling becomes a cultural force online too, to compete with established media like TV and film. It's problematic if YouTube just becomes entrenched as a platform for product reviews.

In Japan, there are tons of young people who want to make movies and dramas, but they just don't end up coming to YouTube. Unless someone appears on YouTube who makes them think, "I want to be like this person," it won't happen. For them right now, online videos probably seem lame. Winning first place with amateur-level quality probably feels pointless. But I think if they just started making online videos, they'd realize you can't keep doing it while looking down on it. You'll hit a wall somewhere. So I do hope they'll start, even if they look down on it.

──Do you think we'll see more story-driven content on Japanese YouTube going forward?

Squash: I think a lot of people active online aren't great with interpersonal relationships. But creating a drama requires gathering several people, so that might be difficult. That's why there's room for solo-created content like animation or CG. I think Japan is stronger in that area.

■ What are the conditions for a YouTuber to grow?

──Back when Web 2.0 was a buzzword, there was talk about how the internet would enable new ways of living, where you could make a living doing what you love. While some people do that, they're still a tiny minority right now. Is it really that difficult?

Squash: It's incredibly difficult. It's not just about creating the work; there's the pressure of having to handle everything ourselves—sales, presentations, brainstorming ideas. Everyone has to be fully committed and work at 100% capacity. Normally, you'd have separate staff for sound, camera, assistants, etc., but we only have one or two helpers. The rest is all done by the four of us. Honestly, when we go shoot corporate tie-up videos, we're shocked to see teams of five or so people filming.

──Isn't there anything that aligns with what you want to do and what makes money?

Squash: The project that really felt rewarding was "Stalking Vampire ~The Man in the Gap~." We always believed we could make it someday, and that was the project where it all came together.

──Including that work, Squash's videos often feature many YouTubers. Is there a network among YouTubers?

Squash: When I first put a drama online, big YouTubers like Jet Daisuke and Ranny praised it as interesting, which gave me a bit of confidence. Around then, I started getting opportunities to make videos with people like Jet Daisuke and MEGWIN. MEGWIN told me that if I wanted to become a YouTuber, I had to watch other online videos. So I started watching everyone's videos, including those with fewer subscribers, to learn. Then, I reach out to people I find interesting.

──So, how would you rate the overall quality of online videos?

Squash: It's clearly divided. People I find funny see their subscriber counts skyrocket. You can tell who's riding the wave right now. Seto Koji, who also comes from theater, is incredibly entertaining to watch, so I reached out to collaborate. Back then, he had fewer subscribers than us, but his numbers shot up afterward. He does a meticulous editing style unlike anything before, clearly introducing products solo while trying to make people laugh. There's also YouTuber Hajime Syacho. Being handsome and young like him is a big advantage. We've got neither (laughs).

──Recently, specialized YouTuber production companies like "uuum" have emerged. What are your thoughts on this trend?

Squash: I think it's really great. Individual creators doing product reviews were hitting limits with schedule management and such, so the emergence of production companies was inevitable.

──Do you think the influence of online videos is growing in society in general?

Squash: Back when I was only doing theater, people never approached me on the street. Now, I get stopped once or twice a month, and it makes me think, "Is it really this big?" It's easy to get carried away (laughs). If it's like this for us, I imagine someone like HIKAKIN must have it affecting his personal life. Also, even people without strong ethics can gain influence through online videos, so you really have to judge them carefully. You can't just assume someone is okay just because they're popular.

■ YouTube's unique grammar—neither film, TV, nor theater

──Is there a difference between what you create for online videos and what you create for theater?

Squash: The approach is completely different. In theater, you have one fixed "space," but in video, you can constantly add movement. You have to fundamentally change your mindset. Even in a static dialogue-driven play, changing the scenery makes it more interesting on video, right? Also, YouTube and film are totally different. For example, in film, you might use a long wide shot, but that's meaningless on YouTube. When people are watching on a small smartphone screen, seeing tiny people inside it just doesn't convey atmosphere. You absolutely have to shoot subjects larger and switch cuts faster. That means YouTube fundamentally isn't about conveying atmosphere. If it's even slightly boring, viewers will switch channels, so you have to keep the pacing relentless, not letting them catch their breath for a second. I'd love to make something like French cinema that starts with atmosphere. But it'd get skipped after five seconds (laughs). That works in theaters. People making movies or dramas probably see our work and think it's different, but we're fundamentally creating something that isn't cinema.

──So you're saying YouTube has its own grammar, distinct from film, TV, or theater.

Squash: Exactly. If it were the same, people would just watch TV. If we don't do things differently, the audience will drift away.

──Do you see potential in expressing things through 6-second videos, like Vine?

Squash: I do see potential, but you need to run it for three to six months and gather data to understand the patterns and what actually gets views. You can't just jump into it lightly.

──I see. So 6-second videos have their own grammar. As new devices like tablets, smartphones, and wearables keep proliferating, content formats will likely change even more. After all, watching on a big monitor versus a smartphone must feel completely different.

Squash: Totally different. Actually, we edit specifically for the small smartphone screen. Sometimes we release those works on DVD, and then you see them on a big screen. But the pacing is too fast—it becomes hard to follow. On a big screen, you can tolerate about three seconds of stillness, but on a small screen, you immediately want to know what's happening. So after creating a piece, we first judge its appeal by watching it on a smartphone.

──I see. So you're already tailoring it to that device right from the editing stage.

Squash: So if we ever made a movie, we'd want to edit it on a really big screen (laughs).

──So if people start watching movies on smartphones and such, the grammar of filmmaking will change, right?

Squash: Exactly. That's why people from that industry come to us asking us to teach them because the grammar is different. When people who make TV come to YouTube, they think just talk can work, so they make stuff like that, but it ends up being something that nobody watches.

■ To avoid a disposable culture, there's more we can do with online video

──You also handle various corporate collaborations as advertisements. How do you view that?

Squash: I see it as a positive trend, but I also fear that unless we create more substantial formats, it risks becoming a disposable culture. There's a tendency for the general public to view YouTubers as just a fad, and I worry that won't allow it to take root as a culture. Regarding advertising too, I think it would be great if we could take it a step further from the current format and move towards collaborating on the creation itself. If we could be involved from the planning stage, I expect interesting ideas could emerge—like collaborations with TV, movies, theater, or blogs.

──Compared to television, what strengths do people working online possess?

Squash: I think the strength of online creators lies in the fact that they themselves, not the media, hold the subscriber count as a tangible figure.

──What challenges do you see for online video?

Squash: Being dismissed as amateurs, I suppose. Bloggers are the only ones who look up to us, but in the film industry, we're treated as complete underdogs. I think online video creators need to find a way to overcome that.

──What do you want to focus on moving forward?

Squash: Honestly, I want everyone to experience the atmosphere of theater. So I strongly believe it would be great to bridge theater and YouTube. If we can create something interesting in that space, I think we can become truly unique. I want to compete with interesting ideas and push forward without being intimidated by new things. If you try to create something without worrying about view counts, it just ends up unseen. Since we work as a team, our advantage is that even when we get deeply immersed in creating a piece, we can challenge each other: "Where's the idea that will boost the view count?"