Shintaro Kawabuchi × Rei Nagi: Part 1 "Why 'Attack on Titan' Became a Social Manga"

The manga "Attack on Titan," with cumulative hardcover sales exceeding 36 million copies, has become a social phenomenon. This time, Mr. Shintaro Kawakubo of Kodansha, the chief editor of "Attack on Titan," and Researcher Nagi, a member of Wakamon, discussed the correlation between young people and content, as seen through the success of "Attack on Titan."

It all started with a single phone call

Nagi: First off, Mr. Kawakubo, do you like manga?

Kawakubo: I've loved manga since elementary school. It's a bit embarrassing to admit as a publishing company employee, but back then I mostly just read them standing up in stores (laughs). I commuted to school by train, and I'd stop at the convenience store on the way home from the nearest station. Sometimes I wouldn't come home until late at night, and my parents would come to the convenience store to pick me up.

Nagi: So you were a manga-loving kid! Was aiming for Kodansha also because you wanted to be involved with manga?

Kawakubo: Yes. I liked both manga and novels, so when I joined Kodansha, I thought it would be great to work in either field. I requested assignment to the manga editorial department.

Nagi: You're currently the chief editor for 'Attack on Titan'. How did you first meet the author, Hajime Isayama?

Kawakubo: In August 2006, Mr. Isayama brought in a one-shot manga titled "Attack on Titan." In our department, whoever answers the phone for submissions has the right to look at the manga. I happened to answer Isayama-san's call. That's because I was in my first year at the company back then, and answering phones was a rookie's job. The submitted work had characters and settings quite different from the current serialized version, but I felt something like a bursting passion emanating from the manuscript.

Nagi: So after reading Isayama's work, you immediately thought, "I want to be his editor"?

Kawakubo: Yes. I handed him my business card saying, "I want to be your editor." Handing over the card right then was a turning point. After reading it, I honestly thought, "This guy might be amazing." I'd only been working for a few months, so I was probably still pretty much just a manga-loving college student back then. But even I could tell it was overflowing with energy. That work later won an honorable mention in Weekly Shonen Magazine's MGP (Magazine Grand Prix).

Nagi: How did that one-shot manga lead to a serialization?

Kawakubo: In 2009, when Bessatsu Shonen Magazine was launched, I proposed serializing this work to Mr. Isayama. It was his first serialization, and it was also my first time launching a 30-40 page serial as chief editor, so we were learning how to make manga together, feeling our way. Even when we disagreed, we worked together to figure out the direction.

Nagi: What kind of things did you disagree on?

Kawakubo: Even though I love manga, I prefer what you'd call "mainstream manga." True manga enthusiasts tend to favor more core, niche works, right? But if that tendency is too strong, it can clash with Shonen Magazine's target reader. I prioritize accessibility for everyone above all else, but Mr. Isayama is an artist, so he has a strong desire to preserve his unique style.

Nagi: I see. How did you two discuss things?

Kawakubo: Fortunately, I'm the older one (laughs), so he really respected that seniority. Or rather, he accepted it. Mr. Isayama is someone who listens to others' opinions, so even when I say something selfish, he's very open-minded about it. It's this dynamic where I'm the older one, yet I'm the one being selfish (laughs).

From "I" to "WE": The Social Manga Transformation of 'Attack on Titan'
 

Nagi: Could you tell us the main age range of 'Attack on Titan' readers?

Kawakubo: Mid-to-late twenties, followed by thirties and teens. The gap between thirties and teens is small, but readers aged 15 to 19 are quite numerous. Before the anime aired, the gender ratio was about 7:3 male to female, but after broadcast, female fans increased significantly. It might even be reversed now.

Nagi: Do you ever get to meet people from the core demographic?

Kawakubo: When I meet them privately, they all say, "I love Attack on Titan." Friends often introduce me as "the guy in charge of Attack on Titan," but sometimes they say, "I watch the anime, but I haven't read the manga" (laughs).

Nagi: Really? (laughs) You seem to interact with a lot of people on Twitter and such. What do you feel when communicating with them?

Kawakubo: First, I can say with certainty that "Attack on Titan fans are warm." It's almost puzzling how warm they are.

Nagi: Do you think that has something to do with Mr. Isayama's personality? He appears in various media outlets, after all.

Kawakubo: That's certainly part of it. But another thing that stands out is that everyone subconsciously wants to "do something to boost Attack on Titan." The other day, talking with Mr. Isayama, we came to a conclusion: every single reader is essentially a promotional representative for Attack on Titan. Earlier, you mentioned how everyone you meet tells you, "I love Attack on Titan." But often, right after that, they follow up with something like, "Hasn't the story been dragging lately?" – harsh opinions about the work. At first, it really surprised me. But I've come to understand that people who give feedback aren't just looking to criticize; they have this underlying desire to "sell Attack on Titan more" or "make it even better."

Nagi: The term "social" is used in many ways these days, but I think one key aspect of "social" is "together." My team (Wakamon) studies youth culture, and we often talk about how the era is shifting from "I" to "WE." Hearing your story, I got the impression that Attack on Titan is a social manga perfectly suited to this current era.

Kawakubo: Yes, I've had that sense myself since the early serialization days. About a year after the series started, we had a special feature in Weekly Shonen Magazine. At that time, we created an article asking, "What exactly is 'Attack on Titan'?" We gathered comments from bookstore staff and numerous blogs like "It's scary, way too scary" and "I read manga for the first time in 10 years," and it was praised to the skies in bookstores and blogs! At that point, I think I probably already had this feeling inside me that Attack on Titan was becoming something for everyone.

The Younger Generation Becoming Mini-Curators

Nagi: Among fans from the early days, I imagine some might feel things like, "I love it, so I don't want it to go mainstream," or "It changed once it became popular." But I don't really see that tendency among Attack on Titan fans.

Kawakubo: Yes. That's largely down to Mr. Isayama. Fundamentally, Isayama-san himself hasn't changed at all. He still writes his storyboards at Kodansha, and when we have meetings late into the night and pull all-nighters, I get tired, but of course, Isayama-san is tired too. Yet, even now, when he leaves, he'll say, "Thank you for staying so late, you must be exhausted," and bow deeply, almost 90 degrees, before leaving. I think it's this unchanging attitude of his that allows it to remain, in a good way, "everyone's" even after becoming this mainstream.

Nagi: I didn't know that story. Changing the subject slightly, I imagine many aspiring manga artists, like Mr. Isayama, submit their work at a young age. What are your impressions when interacting with them?

Kawakubo: I think the typical path for aspiring manga artists is graduating high school, attending a manga vocational school, working part-time jobs while submitting work to publishers for several years, and then finally debuting. Due to the nature of the profession, they often have limited social interaction, which can narrow their perspective. From a "creative" standpoint, that can actually be beneficial. Whether that's a characteristic of the profession or the generation, I can't say for sure.

Nagi: I also get the impression that today's youth view the world they encounter through Twitter, Facebook, and similar platforms as absolute and unquestionable. The thing is, only the information they choose to consume flows to them. It's the same with news apps, photo editing apps, and aggregation sites – they enjoy content curated by others and enjoy curating it themselves. In that sense, you could say everyone has become a mini-curator. Next time, please share your thoughts on attitudes toward work and generational differences.

※The second part of this conversation will be updated on Wednesday, July 2nd.

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【Wakamon Profile】
Dentsu Inc. Youth Research Department (nicknamed Wakamon) is a planning team that engages with the real lives and mindsets of young people, primarily high school and university students. By understanding their "now," we seek hints to brighten and invigorate the near future. Drawing insights from them, we foresee the future and realize new businesses that foster better relationships between young people and society. Currently, 14 project members are based across the Tokyo headquarters, Kansai branch, and Chubu branch. Information is also shared on the Wakamon Facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/wakamon.dentsu ).