Shintaro Kawabuchi × Rei Nagi: Part 2 "Someday, for everyone, the 'moment of winding the spring' arrives."

Following last time, Mr. Shintaro Kawakubo, chief editor of Attack on Titan at Kodansha, and researcher Nagi from Wakamon's team discussed generational differences and work, as seen through manga.

The "Dragon Ball" Generation: Aiming for the Peak Alone, or the "One Piece" Generation: Aiming Together with Comrades?

Nagi: A frequent topic at Wakamon—though not about Kodansha manga—is whether we're the "Dragon Ball" generation, striving alone to grow stronger and reach new heights, or the "One Piece" generation, where everyone has unique strengths and abilities, working together to aim higher. Last time we discussed shifting from "I" to " WE," and younger generations strongly favor the "together" approach. It feels like these generational differences directly shape work styles. What do you think, Mr. Kawakubo?

Kawakubo: Personally, I'm a pure "Dragon Ball" generation guy. I honestly want to climb the ladder and reach the top, and I can be pretty selfish too. But professionally, I try not to show that side and put on a different persona.

Nagi: I see. So your work approach is about reading the current trends.

Kawakubo: That's exactly what I learned from Mr. Isayama—or rather, I've taken a lot from his example. He said he listens to my opinions, but that's not just for me; he does it for everyone. He does the same with other editorial departments, the publicity team, the sales department, and even when we get many interview requests from outside the company. No matter how trivial it seems, he warmly welcomes it. He's someone who thinks, "If it has the potential to be interesting, I want to hear it," and "If it's needed, I want to meet those expectations." So, he accepts everything first, and if he thinks "This time it's difficult," he politely declines. Attack on Titan has truly grown to this point thanks to so many people. Of course, the fundamental appeal lies in the work Isayama-san creates, but I also think that his attitude fostered a desire in everyone to "make this person more mainstream," which is why Attack on Titan became so huge.

Nagi: Mr. Kawabata described himself as part of the "Dragon Ball" generation, but he also possesses a "One Piece" generation sensibility—recognizing Attack as everyone's property early on and his interactions with Mr. Isayama. That was influenced by Mr. Isayama too, wasn't it?

Is an editor a creator of the work? Or a seller?
 

Nagi: Attack on Titan has expanded in many directions and facets. Are you leading the main project, Mr. Kawakubo?

Kawakubo: Yes, that's correct. Just the other day, Mr. Isayama asked me, "You like multi-faceted development, don't you? How do you come up with these promotional ideas?" I do enjoy it, but I also feel it's simply my duty as a salaried employee. A major reason for this mindset stems from my first year at the company, when my mentor told me, "Kawakubo, here's how much your salary is, and here's how much your other expenses cost. You should be ashamed if you don't earn back that amount yourself." That made me start calculating things like: How much profit does Kodansha make from each tankōbon sold? How many copies do I need to sell to cover my own expenses?

Nagi: While editors are often seen as creators standing alongside writers, you view editors as salespeople, right?

Kawakubo: Some people think editors are creators or makers, but I was taught that "editors are salaried employees." Then there's the influence of Yohei Sadoshima, who handled titles like Vagabond and Space Brothers before leaving Kodansha in 2012 to launch Cork. Even back in the era when the "editor as creator" culture was relatively strong, Sadoshima was active as a producer-type editor who produced manga. Before leaving Kodansha, Sadojima said something that stuck with me: "Manga is a product too, so you have to think about how to sell it." My family ran a business, and I studied economics in university, so I enjoy figuring out how to sell things. Creating manga is the artists' job—something I can't do myself. How to sell manga? That's what I see as my role.

Nagi: I heard the April projection mapping event in Kawasaki drew over 10,000 people. Between tie-ins with convenience stores, train advertisements, and seeing Attack on Titan everywhere around town, it's everywhere. With the "Attack on Titan Exhibition" planned for this winter and various other developments likely to follow, how do you envision nurturing Attack on Titan moving forward?

Kawakubo: First and foremost, my biggest desire is to create a work that Mr. Isayama himself can be satisfied with. His career as a manga artist is still very much ongoing, so I want to support him in achieving a conclusion that will be beneficial for the future and lead to the next step. Personally, I want it to remain a "cool work." I hope it won't just be something that ends after five or ten years; even if the serialization finishes, I'd be thrilled if it became a work that people talk about for 100 years.

The "moment of winding the spring" that came at the end of my first year as a working adult

Nagi: Mr. Kawabata is in his early 30s, so the new employees are a generation younger than you. Nowadays, nomadic work styles are gaining attention, and it's said that in the future, people might not stay with just one company but belong to two or three simultaneously. What kind of work styles do you think young people will adopt going forward?

Kawakubo: When I talk to young employees, they often don't seem overly fixated on climbing the corporate ladder. Their goals are more modest—like wanting to create hits that aren't embarrassing, rather than aiming for massive blockbusters. Perhaps they aren't very ambitious.

Nagi: If more young people start thinking this way, could it change how content is created? Talking with them, I sometimes wonder if they're not that different from me. But I also believe content like manga evolves based on the sensibilities, upbringing, and perspectives of those involved.

Kawakubo: I'm not sure. I try not to use phrases like "Back in my day..." because they're meaningless, but if I look back on myself, I think I was a terrible employee in my first year. We have this communication system where we meet with our department head every June. Back then, my department head (who was also the editor-in-chief) asked me, "Is there anything you want to say?" And I replied, "I have no intention of prioritizing work over my personal life, so please understand" (laughs). I genuinely believed that at the time, but people change, you know.

Nagi: How did young Mr. Kawakubo's stance of prioritizing his personal life change after that?

Kawakubo: My peers were outstanding, working incredibly hard and delivering solid results despite being in their first year. I felt like, "I can't stay like this, I'm holding them back." At the end of my first year, I was drinking with three people, including that peer, and apparently I looked up and said, "I need to start winding myself up soon~" (laughs). That day was the day I changed. I think generational differences certainly play a role, but I believe there comes a time when exposure to your environment and training causes you to evolve. Even if there are frustrations with the younger generation, if our generation is compelling, the younger generation will aspire to be like us—and that's what I want us to be. Of course, change isn't always necessary.

Nagi: We often talk about things like the "Satori Generation," assuming generational differences exist, but I think everyone has a moment when they change. It was wonderful to hear about the moment Mr. Kawakubo himself "changed," especially since he's created so many hit works. Thank you very much.

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【Wakamon Profile】
Dentsu Inc. Youth Research Department (nicknamed Wakamon) is a planning team that engages with the real lives and mindsets of young people, primarily high school and university students. We explore hints to brighten and invigorate the near future, starting from their "now." By anticipating the future through their insights, we realize new businesses that foster better relationships between young people and society. Currently, 14 project members are based across our Tokyo headquarters, Kansai branch, and Chubu branch. We also share updates on the Wakamon Facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/wakamon.dentsu ).