Tamesue Talks: Random Thoughts on His Recent Book "The Theory of Mastery" vol.3

"Free Flow" is a serialized interview column in Web Dentsu Inc. News where Mr. Dai Tamesue freely discusses "things on his mind right now." This special edition focuses on his book "Theory of Mastery" (published by Shinchosha), released on July 13th. For Part 1, we asked Mr. Hibi from Dentsu Inc. Future Creative Center, who has long collaborated with Mr. Tamesue on the Athlete Brains project, to contribute a prologue for the series.

In installments #02 through #06, author Tamesue and producer/editor Fumio Iwasa, who edited "Theory of Mastery," engage in a dialogue-style conversation centered on "stories you can only hear here" – including the background leading to the book's writing, memories, and the hardships involved. We hope you enjoy their numerous comments based on the profound theme of "how should humans live?"

(Web Dentsu Inc. Editorial Department)

I agonized over how to express the "Break" in "Shu-Ha-Ri." (Hiroshi Tamura)

Iwasa: "The Theory of Mastery" has progressed through "Play" and "Form," and now we've finally reached the third keyword.

Tamesue: Honestly, this one gave me a headache. What I wanted to say was about the "Break" in "Shuhari" (mastering, breaking, leaving). But after emphasizing how important "Form" is, telling people to break it would be completely contradictory and leave readers scratching their heads.

Iwasa: Historically, this concept described the master-disciple relationship and training process in Japanese arts like tea ceremony and martial arts, right? In your approach, "Shu" corresponds to "Form."

Tamesue: "Ha" is certainly a necessary process for mastery, but I wondered if we could break it down a bit more carefully. It does get a bit abstract, though.

Iwasa: So "Break" = "This and that" × "Such and such"? And that "this and that" corresponds to the third keyword, "Observe (Kan)".
 

Tamesue: I believe the ideal relationship between the previously mentioned "play" and "form" is the ability to move back and forth between the two processes. I said the "play" process is a person's backbone, but as you learn the "form," you might think, "Huh? This feeling—I've experienced this before when I was 'playing'." And then you might think, "Actually, isn't this kind of 'form' better than the current one?"

Iwasa: When considering the process beyond that "kata," you realized it was about "observing" (mi-ru).

Tamesue: Exactly. It's not about immediately "destroying" the form. "Observe" literally means "to watch and analyze," which I think corresponds to the English "analyze."

Iwasa: And here's the interesting part, I think. The "observing" you're talking about, Tamesue-san, isn't about the big picture. It's about observing the details, right?

Tamesue: Exactly. Take running, for instance. It involves countless "parts" – from the tips of your toes to your ankles, knees, thighs, hips, chest, arms, neck... and these parts all work together in coordination. Focusing on those details is the next step beyond the "form" – the stage of mastery.

Iwasa: That very idea is the essence of the "Theory of Mastery," isn't it?

Without "observation," "dialogue" cannot emerge. (Tamesue Dai)

Tamesue: Another crucial aspect of the act of "observing" is the ability to abstract things. This is a step beyond "play" and "kata," enabling rational explanations like "This is how I perceive the current situation." Without this, you cannot have "meaningful dialogue" with others.

Iwasa: By "meaningful dialogue," you mean a conversation that leads to discoveries for both yourself and the other person?

Tamesue: It's the image of stepping forward from the stage of being confined within your own shell of "play," or trapped within the framework of common sense called "form." The more you raise your level of abstraction, the more you can engage in dialogue with people from all walks of life—like shogi players, politicians, chefs, truly anyone. You gain the ability for metacognition.

Iwasa: It's about the "view" in worldview or outlook on life, right? When that "view" changes through some experience—whether it's traveling abroad or anything else—you could say that's the moment a positive "break" begins.

Iwasa Fumio: Producer/Editor. Graduated from Jiyu Gakuen. Served as a business book editor at the Japan Productivity Center and Diamond Inc., and as editor-in-chief of "Harvard Business Review" before becoming independent in 2017. Producer of the books "Shin Nihon" and "The Imagining Mind & The Thinking Hand," as well as Tamesue Dai's "The Theory of Mastery." Currently serves as editor-in-chief of the audio media platform 'VOOX' and as a Fellow at Eiji Press.

Tamesue: Through "observing," the parts themselves, the relationships between parts, and the structure of things become clear. You begin to perceive contours, depth, and weight in things you previously just vaguely gazed at.

Iwasa: When that happens, you suddenly become interested in the "this" part of "break" = "this and that" × "this and that," right? But about that...

Tamesue: I plan to discuss that in detail next time.

Iwasa: So, that's how it goes, huh? (laughs)

When you understand the parts, the principles become visible

Tamesue: What's fascinating is that AI fundamentally operates by "understanding the relationships between vast amounts of data." Humans, by contrast, must draw conclusions from an incomparably smaller amount of data. The fact that we can do this is, in itself, quite mysterious.

Iwasa: AI is fascinating, isn't it? After all, there are even rumors that by 2045, all of humanity will be ruled by AI.

Tamura: I won't delve too deeply as it's slightly off-topic, but in terms of "happy collaboration with AI," I think we've reached the point where we must ask: What can only humans do? What is that unfathomable human ability that far surpasses AI? In that sense, I feel the various discussions we had this time with Iwasa-san, Adachi-san, and many staff members might offer some hints.

Iwasa: When you say "Ms. Adachi," you mean Shinchosha's "demon editor," Maho Adachi, right? (laughs) Now I'm even more curious about the true nature of "×this and that."

The path to mastery is never smooth.

(Continued in #05)

Back issues of 'Athlete Brains: Tamesue Dai's 'Mastering Pace Control' serialized on Web Dentsu Inc. are available here.