The Hit Maker: Nobuyuki Sakuma's Creative Approach
Former TV Tokyo producer Nobuyuki Sakuma continues to create hit after hit across media platforms—TV, YouTube, events, radio, and business books—even after going freelance.
This article features a roundtable discussion with Sakuma, Dentsu MCx (Media & Content Transformation) Division(*) members Taira Nunegawa and Hirokazu Ito, and Media Services / Radio,TV Division representative Kaori Maeda. We delve into Sakuma's unique approach to creativity, including behind-the-scenes stories from his programs and the secrets to successful streaming events as seen in the talk variety show "Achi Kochi Audrey" (TV Tokyo network).
※MCx Division: A specialized organization established in January 2024 to drive the evolution of media and content businesses and pursue new creation and development.
https://www.dentsu.co.jp/news/business/2024/0124-010679.html
＊This article is re-edited based on content originally published in Transformation SHOWCASE.
Even programs fans might dislike
Ito: I've worked on various projects with Mr. Sakuma since his days as a TV Tokyo employee. What struck me is that he's not only a hit maker but also exceptionally skilled at cultivating "devoted fans." How do you approach engaging with fans when producing programs and content?
Sakuma: When I was at TV Tokyo, I made programs with the fans in mind. I believed that to leave behind programs I found interesting, I needed to deepen communication with viewers and build strong fans.
For example, with the drama series "Urelo☆," we involved fans in deciding bonus DVD features and opened up the production process to viewers – essentially doing what we'd now call process marketing.
For the variety show "Godtan," we focused on building a dedicated fanbase to survive in the late-night slot, while also making sure not to skew the content solely towards that audience. I believe it's precisely because we occasionally run segments that those fans might dislike that the show has lasted over 15 years.
Ito: That idea of "deliberately including segments they might dislike" struck me as an interesting perspective for fan marketing. So, does providing only what viewers like mean content won't last long?
Sakuma: Exactly. For example, we want "God Tongue" to be known as a show with hits and misses. We aim for a state where "this person might think it's a miss, but that person thinks it's a hit." If you only make shows everyone likes, it feels like immunity weakens over time. It becomes harder for truly new content to emerge, like a mutation, and the ability to create content that lasts long-term seems to decline.
That's why, when creating a show, we've maintained its brand value by establishing one rule each time and strictly adhering to it. And we do whatever it takes to attract new viewers. That was our production stance back when I was at TV Tokyo.
Creating with "Media Backward Planning"
Sakuma: Since leaving TV Tokyo in 2021, the range of content I create has expanded. For example, I might produce YouTube content one day and appear as an MC on a TV show the next. Some people probably think of me as a radio personality.
TV viewers and YouTube viewers are different, and their expectations differ too. That's precisely why I make sure to establish my own rules for each medium and always incorporate at least one form of expression unique to that platform.
Maeda: I see. I had assumed you had a strong core identity as a creator and used all media to project "Nobuyuki Sakuma."
Sakuma: Many people might think that. But my approach is completely the opposite—I avoid creating the impression that "Creator Sakuma is orchestrating all these different things."
So, if I challenge myself on YouTube, I study YouTube and present content that says, "This is what can only be done on YouTube." I believe the reason I'm currently achieving passing grades across various, albeit unstable, content is because I create by "working backwards from the medium."
Ito: So "one source, multiple uses" (using one piece of material for multiple purposes) doesn't work anymore, right?
Sakuma: I agree. For example, even among popular YouTubers, surprisingly few succeed as TV personalities, don't you think? I believe only those who are truly committed to a specific medium – who genuinely prioritize that medium above all else – succeed, whether it's YouTube or radio. So, logically, someone like me who tries to conquer all media should fail (laughs).
But precisely because I work across diverse media, I can work backwards to identify what each platform uniquely offers. Some fans of my radio show tell me, "I don't watch your TV programs." Hearing that makes me realize I'm delivering value exclusive to radio.
Fuse-gawa: I also often think about new value for media and content in the MCx room. As Sakuma-san said, expanding one piece of content across multiple media and monetizing it is harder than I imagined. Simply sliding the same audience sideways often doesn't lead to growth.
I really resonated with your point about analyzing based on each medium's characteristics: "The people on the other side of this medium are probably like this. So, we should provide content like this, right?"
Programs with hit-or-miss content tend to be trusted more.
Ito: One of the programs we're working on with Sakuma-san is "Achi Kochi Audrey." From here, I'd like to ask about specific production techniques and the relationship between TV and streaming events, using this program as an example.
Sakuma: This program began with the desire to create a flagship show for Audrey, specifically a freestyle talk show with them as hosts. One reason was hearing that Wakabayashi (Masayasu), once known as a "shy comedian," had "become interested in people" – I felt it was the perfect time to create a talk show.
Another reason was wanting to create a show that countered the conventional talk format, which relies on guests filling out questionnaires beforehand to ensure consistent entertainment value. We felt such a show would have real meaning and be something viewers would want.
Fuse-gawa: Even so, there are plenty of other talk shows out there, so I imagine it's quite difficult to differentiate yours. What points did you focus on?
Sakuma: Audrey is the type of comedian who isn't intimidating and easily connects with people. Plus, Wakabayashi himself is someone who navigated the entertainment world while wrestling with his own struggles. I was confident it would be interesting because I believed there were questions only he could ask and stories only Audrey could draw out.
Beyond that, the key is not to get bogged down solely in discussions about the guests' comedy acts, especially when they're comedians. We staff need to translate that into discussions about work itself. We edit it so it comes across not as talk about "performing arts," but as talk about "work" that viewers can relate to their own jobs.
Maeda: A major feature of the show is that we don't have guests fill out questionnaires beforehand; we just let the free-flowing conversation unfold. Why did you choose to do it this way?
Sakuma: I strongly wanted to create a program with hits and misses. There might be misses, but there's also the potential for a big hit. I felt that kind of program might be more trusted nowadays.
That's because I feel TV's credibility has relatively declined these days. Plus, viewers dislike being lied to. For example, nowadays, when you tell an actor, "You look beautiful," someone who says, "I don't do anything special," gets less support than someone who says, "I work really hard on my skincare routine with serums!" (laughs). So, I wanted to make a program without lies.
Fuse-gawa: It's true, there's no deception in the program-making. Was this perspective—showing the behind-the-scenes production and process to earn viewer trust—something you've always been conscious of?
Sakuma: Yes. Personally, I'm the type who thoroughly pursues things I like, so I truly feel that content won't gain support unless there's a reason for viewers to resonate with it. To build a solid fanbase at TV Tokyo and secure revenue beyond broadcasts, I believed we needed to firmly establish our brand value.
Ito: "Audrey Here and There" was the first program I worked on with Sakuma-san. We had the ambition to "compete by merging TV and streaming events." From the first year, we sold 42,000 streaming tickets, reaching a peak of 80,000 tickets sold to date, making it Japan's top streaming event now.
What's interesting is that the audiences are slightly different: TV viewers, those watching on streaming services like TVer, and those attending the streaming events. It shows the breadth of our content. Regarding the events, what aspects do you focus on when planning them?
Sakuma: The first rule we decided on was to avoid creating an event where the quality of experience differed between those watching live and those watching the stream. That's why we didn't allow any audience members at the event itself. Furthermore, we hoped this streaming event could reach regions and demographics that normally don't get the "Achi Kochi Audrey" program.
Based on these two concepts, we held extensive discussions with the staff, and the current format was born. Previously, many streaming events related to TV programs would air some footage of the event later within the show itself. But for the "Achi Kochi Audrey" events, we decided not to air anything within the program at all. The event is exclusively for those who attend. We also imposed a strict no-discussion policy on social media. Instead, we encouraged the performers to share more in-depth stories.
Seeking the best approach for the times
Maeda: What challenges do you want to take on with "Achi Kochi Audrey" going forward?
Sakuma: We're ready to take the show into its third phase. Audrey's standing in the entertainment world has changed since the show began. There are many ways to reach the top in showbiz, but Audrey is climbing to the summit of their own unique mountain. I want to show how only Audrey can interact with younger talents, and I think this show could also connect with people outside the entertainment industry.
But the most important thing is for both Audrey and the guests to reveal their true feelings – things they only say on this show. Not doing pre-show questionnaires is just one method to achieve that. We want to keep exploring the best approach for the times, figuring out which methods bring out the most genuine reactions. I believe the show won't last unless we constantly assess and adapt like this.
Ito: 2024 marks the 5th anniversary of "Achi Kochi Audrey." We hope the show continues evolving with the times, and we'd like to collaborate on something special too.
For our streaming events, about 30% of ticket buyers are from areas outside our broadcast region. Since our content offers unique value, we want to visualize and highlight these strengths.
Maeda: With the streaming events, both the viewers and Audrey seem to be getting more and more passionate with each episode. While cherishing that feeling, I hope we can make this 5th anniversary something that also delights new fans.
Sakuma: It's rare for this type of program to last five years, so we want to properly celebrate and promote the 5th anniversary. We intend to continue cherishing this program going forward.
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Author
Nobuyuki Sakuma
Born in Iwaki City, Fukushima Prefecture in 1975. Joined TV Tokyo in 1999. Went freelance in 2021. Handled programs including "Godtan," "Achi Kochi Audrey," "Odo Odo x Hara Hara," "Talk Survivor! ~A Drama Where Interesting Talk Means Survival~," and "LIGHTHOUSE." Since April 2019, he has hosted the radio program "Sakuma Nobuyuki's All Night Nippon 0 (ZERO)". His YouTube channel "Sakuma Nobuyuki's NOBROCK TV" is also popular. His recent book is "Sakuma Nobuyuki's Sneaky Work Tactics" (Diamond Inc.).
Hira, Nunokawa
Dentsu Inc.
After being assigned to the SP Division, he was seconded to IPG Inc. in 1999, where he worked on launching the electronic program guide service. In 2004, he became the company's President and Representative Director. He returned to Media Services / Radio,TV Division in 2005.
Hirokazu Ito
Dentsu Inc.
In 2019, he spearheaded the launch of "Achi Kochi Audrey" alongside Sakuma and Japan's largest-scale streaming live event. He is engaged in unconventional content business development, organizing everything from strategy to collaborative ventures for business growth. He has launched multiple high school events and worked on IP business development. He is driving the maximization of content experience value for consumers.
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Kaori Maeda
Dentsu Inc.
At Media Services / Radio,TV Division, I handled TV Tokyo, TV Aichi, and TV Osaka, engaging in program sales and event operations to create new media business opportunities. For the show "Audrey Here and There," I was also involved in launching streaming events and pop-up events. I am exploring possibilities with a wide range of industries to maximize content business opportunities within the broadcasting station.