Let's talk about "menopause" with Hadakabeyya and "Voices from the Heart"!

Dentsu Inc.'s cross-functional internal organization 'FemTech and BEYOND.' views femtech as relevant not only to women but to society as a whole, driving various initiatives.

This series explores the changing trends in femtech and its significance through the organization's initiatives, exchanging views with diverse companies and media outlets.

This time, we held a roundtable discussion on "menopause" with members of Hadakabeyya, a podcast unit created by three women of the same generation aiming to "update society's values."

IMALU, Meg, and Natsuko, who have provided topics linked to women's well-being and empowerment, were interviewed by Rin Tai, a member of FemTech and BEYOND. They shared their "unvarnished voices" on how to face "menopause," a reality many women confront.

Expanding on typically serious women's topics through "friends talk" among peers

Tai: Today, we'd like to explore women's "menopause" with the Hadakabeyya members. Before we dive in, please introduce yourselves.

IMALU: I'm IMALU. I work as a talent on TV and radio. Currently based on Amami Oshima, I enjoy commuting between there and Tokyo for my activities.

Meg: I'm Meg. In 2015, I founded a company primarily focused on lingerie brands. I also work independently on branding and consulting from a well-being perspective. My motivation for starting the company was believing that sexual autonomy is crucial for Japanese women to proactively choose their own paths from available options. Rather than delivering sexual education through formal "lectures," I hope to help people update their mindsets and values enjoyably, filtered through the lens of fashion.

Natsuko: I'm Natsuko. I've worked for organizations like advertising agencies and apparel companies. While at the largest company, I witnessed firsthand the reality that despite promoting women's advancement, it remained challenging, and I heard about the many issues on the ground. This made me think about creating opportunities to change even one thing, which is why I now support such initiatives.

Tai: How did "Hadakabeyya" begin?

IMALU: We started it as a personal initiative among the three of us before the pandemic. It began more as a project to feel the importance of sharing our perspectives than as a job. We're thrilled it's led to opportunities like this interview.

Meg: It really started as just "casual chatting among friends." As we were setting up our company, we became interested in sexual wellness and femtech. Talking with IMALU and Natsuko, we thought, "This is a world you can't see unless you share information, so we want to create more spaces to talk about it," and the project grew from there.

Natsuko: It was right in the middle of the pandemic, so we started with live streams on Clubhouse. After that, as we could go out again, we've been sharing experiences about challenges unique to women with our listeners, hoping to help update even one thing at a time.

Tai: When tackling women's issues, conversations can get stiff, and finding the right approach or way to spread the word can be quite challenging. You all started as friends, and it's precisely because you're close that the conversation flows so well. Listening to your podcast gives me the feeling of being part of that "circle of friends," making it incredibly relatable. I'd be thrilled if we could keep that same vibe today.

The Negative Image of "Menopause" That Grows Precisely Because It's Unknown

Tai: Today's theme, "menopause," has also felt somewhat taboo until now, with few opportunities to discuss it openly. For you ladies in your mid-30s, often called "pre-menopausal," what images came to mind when you heard "menopause"?

IMALU: Honestly, not very positive. I picture things like irritability and hot flashes – it seems tough. Plus, when society talks about "women going through menopause," there's this image of them being "difficult" or "quick to anger." As I've learned more about women's bodies, I started wondering why menopause, which is such a natural part of life, only seems to carry these negative connotations.

Meg: I first heard about menopause probably from my mom and her friends talking. What stuck with me was the phrase "she's reached the end of her journey as a woman." As an elementary school kid, I couldn't quite grasp what that meant. Was it like "leveling up" in a game—a positive thing, like clearing a stage and moving on? Or did it mean, because of menopause, her role as a woman related to pregnancy and childbirth—what my mom's generation called her "purpose"—was over? I remember suddenly feeling anxious, wondering which one it was.

IMALU: It's amazing you interpreted it as "leveling up." I only thought of the negative meaning, like "the end of being a woman."

Meg: From how my mother and others talked about it, it seemed like there was a sense of liberation from menstruation ending, but also a feeling like they were discussing it as some kind of "crisis." Either way, since I couldn't grasp the reality of it, I had this impression that something carrying both meanings would eventually come for me too.

Tai: Definitely. There is a bit of that image of it "creeping up on you" without you knowing.

Natsuko: For me, it was my mother too, initially. During my adolescence, my mom was probably right in the middle of menopause. One moment she'd be irritable or hysterical, then depressed or crying, and then suddenly laughing? I couldn't figure out what state she was in. Seeing my mom's emotions flip-flopping like that, I developed this scary image of "I don't want to go through menopause."

Tai: You can't really know how it feels until you experience it yourself. Precisely because it's unknown, it carries this "scary" impression. I suspect many people feel this way, and even if they want to take countermeasures, they just can't seem to get started. Regarding that first step of "learning" and taking countermeasures, how do you all think we can make progress?

Meg: I think this applies to all women's health issues. There's probably a bottleneck in the fact that previous generations somehow managed to get by without formal knowledge. So we might think we can manage too, and skip things like pelvic floor exercises, thinking "I don't need to do that."

But with technology advancing so much and services increasing, just "knowing" about countermeasures could mean spending a fraction of your life without being troubled by menopause. Conversely, I think the first step is realizing that "not knowing" means losing that possibility. It's important to judge "which option to choose" for living a fulfilling life.

Tai: During my research this time, I was surprised to learn that until around the early Showa period, very few women suffered from menopause. Why? Because average life expectancy was different back then.

As the world changes overall, including average lifespans and new infectious diseases, we might be entering a new phase. If so, I think it's important not to assume "it was fine before," but to properly reassess and rethink things according to each era.

IMALU: For that to happen, we need those directly experiencing it to speak up. While topics like menstruation have only recently become easier to discuss, menopause remains largely uncharted territory. Our generation, facing menopause ahead, wants to learn from our elders about the different patterns and how they cope with the diverse symptoms. After all, we don't know what symptoms we'll actually experience.

Meg: In that sense, I suspect many mothers instinctively try to hide their discomfort from their children out of parental concern. But since they're the closest female role models, they're actually the ones we want to learn from most. I feel there could be more focus on sharing experiences about menopause between mothers and daughters.

Is menopause a chance to "rearrange your life"?

Tai: During my research, two other things struck me as interesting. First, the duration of "menopause." It's apparently defined as the five years before and after menopause, totaling ten years. Since Japanese women typically experience menopause around age 50, that covers ages 45 to 55.

IMALU: I also recently learned it's "around" menopause. But since you can't predict when your period will stop, it's tricky to pinpoint when it starts or even recognize if you're going through menopause. You might just think, "I feel irritable, maybe it's my period."

Natsuko: Yeah, totally. I think it's easy to get confused by that side of things.

Tai: Of course, there's individual variation. Not many people feel discomfort for a full 10 years; some sources say it peaks around 5 years. Still, the fact that it can last several years is one reason it's considered tough.

I heard quite a few people felt anxious during the pandemic, experiencing it for the first time and wondering what lay ahead. If they'd been told upfront, "It'll last about two more years," and could see the "end," they might have considered how to spend those two years from a different perspective. Menopause is long, but if you can think of it ending in 5 to 10 years, you might approach it a little differently.

IMALU: I definitely think it would be completely different.

Tai: As mentioned at the beginning, was the pandemic the trigger for your decision to base yourself on Amami Oshima, IMALU?

IMALU: I think that was the biggest influence. I spent my twenties focused solely on work, so I thought, "In my thirties, I'll do the traveling I love and everything I've wanted to do, and I'll go overseas all the time!" Then the pandemic hit the very next year. I'd always dreamed of living near the ocean, but with work uncertain and facing huge anxiety, I really rethought my way of life and how I approached work. That's when I decided, "I'm just going to do it now."

Initially, I considered moving somewhere near Tokyo, but I realized that would just mean continuing my work as before and ending up halfway. So, deciding to go all the way to Amami Oshima was actually a big step.

Tai: That decisiveness is impressive. Whether it's the pandemic or menopause, it's crucial to shift your perspective away from thinking "I have to give up everything" or "not being able to live as before means starting from zero." Like you just described, changing your viewpoint allows you to see it as a "good opportunity" and rebuild your life. You could even see menopause as just one phase in that process.

Natsuko: Exactly. If you keep thinking negatively, your options inevitably narrow, and you end up feeling "I just can't do this anymore."

Tai: Natsuko, how would you like to reframe these next 5 to 10 years?

Natsuko: This might be a bit different, but I caught a cold at the end of last year and was bedridden for a week. I felt pretty down mentally too, but I realized that thinking negatively wouldn't bring down my fever. Instead, I thought, "I'll just let it go up to 40 degrees!" I decided to face this situation head-on!

So, I first chose not to take medicine, and sure enough, my fever kept climbing. Taking medicine would obviously make me feel better. After trying both approaches, I thought, "Which one is better for me?" and ultimately chose not to take it, deciding to "fight it a little."

IMALU: That's amazing. But just having the option of "medicine is available" makes a difference mentally, right? What was the result?

Natsuko: I didn't take the medicine, but I tried various things like putting a heating pad on my feet. I got so busy doing that, and before I knew it, my temperature had returned to normal (laughs). I think that's one approach – facing your body and situation while trying different things, or distracting yourself with busyness. First, try things your own way.

Tai: That's such a flexible way of thinking. You listened to your body and figured out what made you feel better.

Natsuko: Exactly, it's like an experiment. Menopause symptoms vary from person to person, and even for the same body, they probably change month to month, just like with menstruation. So I think it's okay if what you try differs each time. Plus, if you only focus on the idea of "curing" menopause, it's hard to stay positive. I think it's better to consider ways to ease into it gradually.

Maybe just "communicating the situation" is a good start.

Tai: Another discovery is that while menopause often focuses on physical health, there are actually three aspects: physical, mental, and the social environment (including work and family relationships). It becomes difficult because all three lose balance at once. Mental health is a common theme lately, but serious people who think "I have to fix this" or "I can't let work suffer" just get more and more stressed. What advice would you give to people like that?

Meg: This might not directly answer your question, but looking at these three pillars, I think changing the social aspect is the easiest to control. I often think how much easier life would be if I could manage my mental health well, but I don't really believe that's possible during menopause. If I could handle my physical health myself, I wouldn't be struggling, right?

So when I realized I might just have to ask for help, I thought that even if those around me didn't fully understand, sharing how I'm feeling might make a difference.

Natsuko: Yeah, maybe. It's not about demanding "Understand me!" or "Forgive me because of menopause," but just communicating it upfront.

Meg: Exactly, like "I'm just laying out the facts for now." Just having that action in place might make a difference—even if it's just so people remember when something happens. So if I ever find myself advising someone, I think I'd start by saying, "Can you tell me what your current state is?"

Natsuko: Symptoms vary for everyone, after all.

Meg: Even if I can't help after hearing about it, it'd be great if everyone could have the mindset of, "Now that I know, I'll remember if something comes up."

IMALU: It would also be great if those going through it felt more comfortable saying, "I'm in menopause now!"

Meg: Since menopause eventually comes to everyone, maybe we could say something like, "I'm ahead of you on this." When we're young, we tend to think it won't happen to us, and I feel that creates a divide between those experiencing menopause and those who aren't. We should create an atmosphere like, "Oh, you've already gone through it, senior."

Natsuko: Definitely. Instead of people whispering behind your back, "I hear she's going through menopause," I wish it could be seen as something cute.

IMALU: Even during your period, you can get irritable, but just telling your partner can make things easier sometimes. When you snap at them over something small, saying "I'm premenstrual right now" can help them understand a little.

Meg: They might get a little scared (laughs), but you're saying it for both of your sakes.

Tai: Some period tracking apps have features to share cycle info with partners. As you said, I think we'll gradually see similar data-sharing options emerge for menopause too.

Personally, I think AI could be useful too. Considering some people don't want to tell actual humans they're going through menopause, it would be great if, say, an anonymous AI could use data to schedule things around times when everyone is less likely to be struggling. Hopefully, as more people speak up, the need for tools like this will become more widely recognized.

By not letting information remain mere "knowledge" but expanding opportunities for discussion, society itself can change.

Tai: As IMALU mentioned earlier, communication is crucial. Over the past few years, celebrities sharing their experiences and media features on menopause have created a significant movement. Ordinary people started thinking, "Oh, others are struggling too," or "I'm not alone," feeling a sense of community. I think that's incredibly important.

With that in mind, finally, as the Hadakabeyo members, if there's anything you'd like to share about menopause going forward, or activities you'd like to expand beyond just menopause, please tell us.

IMALU: Regarding menopause, since we're not personally experiencing it yet, we want to keep listening to the stories of those who have gone through it.

Natsuko: Right now, we're in the learning phase. Sharing what we learn is what we can do.

Tai: Exactly. We want to voice the anxieties and fears of those of us who are "not yet" going through it, and have your voices ask those who have experienced it.

Meg: In Hadakabeyya's activities, I feel two powerful forces: "learning" and "sharing." Nowadays, we can learn so much through SNS, the internet, videos, and more. One-way input can be endless. But if it stops there, it becomes mere "knowledge."

When we add our own perspectives to the information we've learned and share it in spaces like this, while also hearing others' opinions, that knowledge gets updated and takes on a new "color." If this action—taking that knowledge to another space...—is repeated across various communities, I believe it can lead to societal updates. This action itself is something everyone can do in their daily lives. When many people do it, it reaches those who aren't directly involved, and as a result, new services might be created or systems established, potentially benefiting us in turn.

This approach can continue as long as social issues exist, so I want to keep doing it. While it might be hard to generate all the solutions, I believe we can foster the necessary mindset.

Natsuko: That's right. We want to create content that can spread this message even a little further. By reaching as many people as possible—even those uninterested in this topic or unaware of the issue—and having them pass it on to others, it can keep growing.

Tai: Dentsu Inc. also wants to actively connect these kinds of "spaces." Personally, today gave me new perspectives and ways of thinking. I'd love to visit Hadakabey's recording studio sometime soon—not to continue this conversation exactly, but to talk more.

IMALU: We could definitely talk more about this. Please share more of your insights, Mr. Tai!

Related Article:The Reality of Working Women in Their 50s Living Through "Menopause" ~ Considering the Second Half of Life ~
 

 

・Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gCzCXuUfbn7VHlFP0adVi
・Hadakabeya: https://www.h7house.com/hadakabeya
・Instagram: @hadakabeya_official
・X: @hadakabeya