The Future of Mobile Games: A Conversation with Top Creators. Part 2 (Mistwalker × Ailim × Dentsu Smapla)

Hello, everyone. I'm Yamamoto from Dentsu Inc. Smart Platform.

In the smartphone game market, which reportedly accounts for about 90% of smartphone app sales, what kind of games are users seeking right now? Continuing from Part 1, we'll explore this together with leaders at the forefront of the industry.

We invited three guests: Hironobu Sakaguchi, creator of FINAL FANTASY and recently known for "Terra Battle"; Hisatoshi Hayashi, who developed "Brave Frontier" at Ailim; and Eiji Takahashi. We asked them about the future of smartphone games.

Is monetization a double-edged sword?

──I imagine quite a few people wish for titles that adopt a playstyle similar to console games, where you reach a certain point to see the ending and then sequels are released. Why don't such games emerge?

Hayashi: From an operational standpoint, we simply can't ignore users who spend tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of yen within the game.

Sakaguchi: It's the monetization issue. That's why we shouldn't profit to that extent. We should set a cap. But because we want to profit even more, we become immobilized, and ultimately, the IP (Intellectual Property) dies. In the long run, I believe setting a cap on monetization and keeping the IP alive would yield greater total revenue 20 years down the line.

Takahashi: I truly agree. I might get criticized for saying one thing and doing another (wry smile).

But I wanted to say this after actually succeeding with a mobile game first. "Yeah, that was definitely the wrong approach." If you just talk about it without doing it, it just looks like sour grapes. I wanted to do it first, then criticize it (laughs).

──Is there a tendency within the industry to frown upon such excessive monetization?

Takahashi: I think there is. There are some strong-minded people who've declared things like "moving away from gacha." Nowadays, sales rankings are visible, and I think users get caught up in that and are being manipulated. But fundamentally, that kind of thing shouldn't have been something we worried about in the world of games. If something hit, it hit, and that was fine. Even if it wasn't a sales hit, there should have been plenty of games that were appreciated by people. But because of that system, I think the discussion has developed in a somewhat distorted way.

Sakaguchi: Methods exist solely to boost download numbers for higher rankings. It's a very distorted form of promotion, and it's become entrenched. That's not good. It leads to a ranking supremacy mindset, preventing the industry from developing normally.

Hayakashi: I feel acutely that if things continue like this, we'll end up with strange growth. Even as we do it ourselves, we keep questioning it.

Sakaguchi: With so many apps out there now, you're bound to get buried. Standing out is the first priority. Getting featured by Apple or Google would be great, but that's beyond our control. Within their stores, it's like the impulse to get your book displayed prominently in a bookstore. At that point, rankings are the only thing we can influence. Well, that might just be an unavoidable part of the current situation.

──I imagine whether a game hits overseas also significantly impacts sales. When developing games, do you ever consider overseas markets and decide on specific features or designs with that in mind?

Sakaguchi: This pertains more to console games, but while JRPGs (Japanese RPGs) once dominated the world, there's been a noticeable trend in recent years suggesting they've lost some momentum. My view is that this trend correlates with JRPG creators starting to make games specifically to appeal to Western audiences.

Overseas gamers want to play JRPGs. They want to experience that unique, indescribable Japanese flavor crafted for Japanese audiences. I think the JRPG boom happened because Nintendo and Sony spread their hardware globally, forcing recognition of this "J" culture. It gave people a culture shock, making them think, "This is interesting!"

But when they started making games by imitation, targeting Western sales, it resulted in something unspeakably half-baked. And then they started saying JRPGs were in decline. Where did all the Japanese creators go?

That's why I think it's better to make things for Japanese audiences and export what Japanese kids say is "super fun!" Of course, some will be export-friendly and some won't, but that's just how it is. Making things for Western audiences might have some short-term success, but long-term, it won't work.

Hayakashi: Ultimately, Terra Battle matched the demand Mr. Sakaguchi just mentioned. By stripping away culturally rooted elements like noses and mouths, it hit the sweet spot perfectly. If they'd made it unnaturally realistic, the reaction might have been very different. People might have said, "This art doesn't suit us."

Sakaguchi: It would have become weird Western-style art.

Hayakashi: It clicked perfectly. That's amazing.

Yamamoto: What about Brave Frontier?

Takahashi: Not to follow Hayakashi here, but the decision to remove mouths from Breath of Fire's characters was something he deliberately did, anticipating overseas tastes.

Sakaguchi: But that's more about Breflor's individuality than targeting the West, right? Even though it was conscious of overseas markets, it became part of its identity.

The Major Dilemma Facing Mobile Games

──I believe games like Terra Battle and Breath of Fire demonstrate one form of mobile RPGs. How do you think playing RPGs on mobile will evolve going forward? Or how would you like to see it evolve?

Sakaguchi: Ultimately, it's the characters. Characters are pieces that advance the game, but even in FF, they started as simple pixel art pieces. Yet, they act out scenes—not even grand ones—like when Palom and Porom (characters from FF4) turn to stone to clear the path and let the player pass. That alone makes players cry, doesn't it? Those memories are incredibly powerful. It wasn't a grand cinematic moment, even by the game's own standards. But they became rooted in the user's mind not as game pieces, but as living characters. I think it's because they were characters you raised yourself, or because you spent so much time with them and grew attached.

──I also remember tearing up during Garland and Exdeath's battle in FF5.

Sakaguchi: That's where the key lies. When the characters you've nurtured do something that stirs your emotions, that's where the feeling of being moved comes from. I wouldn't call it the definition of an RPG, but looking back at my history, I think it's a surprisingly big factor in creating that feeling of "Wow, this game is amazing." Once you hook the user there, I believe those characters themselves become the IP. That's also a lesson I learned from Kazuhiko Torishima at Shueisha, who was incredibly helpful to me. He pointed out why FF1 didn't work: the characters weren't distinct. It was just keeping players occupied for hours within the game's framework. "This isn't entertainment," he said. "What matters are the characters."

I remember thinking at the time that we absolutely couldn't just copy manga characters, but after hearing Mr. Torishima's critique, I realized that if we could incorporate that essence in a way that worked for games, we'd win.

Hayakashi: That's cool. I worry that if we end up with a bunch of Sakaguchi-san's panel-style characters, and it just becomes a game where you find the strong one and clear it, that would be sad. I want kids playing games on smartphones for the first time to feel that same thrilling excitement we felt as kids.

──I see. Characterization itself might be the key challenge mobile games need to overcome going forward.

Sakaguchi: The tricky part then is the gacha collection problem and the character loss problem.

──What do you mean by that?

Sakaguchi: The core of RPGs is that certain characters teaming up unleashes special abilities. It's about camaraderie. From our perspective, the restrictions imposed by the gacha system issue have been surprisingly detrimental to mobile RPGs. We really need better legal frameworks. If it doesn't lead to gambling-like microtransactions, maybe the rules could be relaxed a bit.

It really is important. You worked hard to level up specific characters just to use their special combo moves, right? Even though they weren't that strong in battle.

──Like the three-person moves in Chrono Trigger, they were genuinely thrilling.

Sakaguchi: Exactly. Then there's the issue of losing characters. In a scenario, having a character die is incredibly important, but this is difficult in mobile games.

Hayakashi: There's currently no solution for avoiding the problem when players have invested heavily in paying to level up that character. So, it's still hard to create that kind of scenario.

Sakaguchi: We need to find a way to skillfully solve these two issues. Essentially, we need to lower the monetization ratio while allowing more freedom in the story, incorporating elements like friendship or loss. Users will immerse themselves more deeply in the game world that way, and ultimately, sales might actually increase.

Aiming for a business model unique to mobile games

──Perhaps what will be required going forward is approaching things from a perspective focused on long-term engagement, or nurturing the IP itself. Creating games that are truly loved by users, so to speak.

Takahashi: Take console games like Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy—when they say "4 million copies sold!", that essentially means 4 million paying users. If you imagine all 4 million people spending ¥6,000, that's a staggering figure. Excellent games are said to have a monetization rate of around 10%, so for today's Free to Play mobile games, that translates to a game with a total domestic user base of about 40 million. It really makes you think about how deeply loved those games were by so many users.

Sakaguchi: What I really love about running mobile games is when users who played without spending money decide to make a donation-like payment after reaching a certain milestone. That's incredibly beautiful, and I hope this trend takes root. They pay later because they were moved. They pay because there's a place to pay within the game, so they spend 1000 yen. That money is incredibly rewarding. I feel like we should emphasize this more. It's not just about the gacha mechanism; it's about the revenue generated from these user donations, these tokens of appreciation. We should be sharing those numbers and leveraging that narrative.

Takahashi: If only the gacha weren't there, it would be so much cleaner, right? (laughs)

Sakaguchi: No, gacha is fun! It's incredibly fun. So, it's about using it well. It's not something to hate that much.

Takahashi: It's true, the excitement of not knowing what you'll get is fun. But because it directly translates to sales, the law gets sensitive. There are actually a lot of people furious about it. At this point, I feel we can't move away from it, but it really is our biggest challenge. How will it change? Can we change it?

Hayakashi: Fundamentally, I think there's this mindset: if players find the game enjoyable, they'll play it a bit longer. Since they're playing for such a long time, it's not like a donation, but they feel it's worth spending a little money without feeling like they're losing out.

Sakaguchi: We want to change it well, right? There are all kinds of games. Not just RPGs and gacha, but things like purchasing scenarios.

Hayakashi: Scenario purchases, LINE payments, LINE games—paying to play feels like arcade-style payments, where you never lose out on the money spent. If that kind of mobile RPG emerges, it would be beautiful in a way.

──We look forward to mobile games growing even more alongside their users, and to both companies creating major hit IPs originating from mobile. Thank you for your time today.