Learning Copywriting from "A Senior's Way of Life"

Mr. Yukio Hashiguchi, who serves as Creative Director/Copywriter at Dentsu Inc. He invites "masters of words" active in worlds completely separate from advertising. This series re-edits the content of the bi-monthly webinars from an editorial perspective. Guided by Mr. Hashiguchi's viewpoint that "new things always come with new words," we delve deeper into contemplating the power and potential of language.
 
In this sixth installment, we introduce the power and charm of words through a conversation between Mr. Hashiguchi and Mr. Hironobu Tanaka, who gained attention for his multifaceted activities as a freelance creator after leaving Dentsu Inc.
 
Titled "Help, Hironobu-san! I Don't Know How to Talk!", this webinar took on a slightly different flavor than previous ones. It featured a copywriter currently active on the front lines seeking guidance from a senior copywriter on "how to interact with people." We believe it offers hints that are a cut above the usual technical discussions on copywriting as an expressive technique.

Written by: Web Dentsu Inc. Editorial Department

Tanaka Yasunobu: Writer. Worked for 24 years at Dentsu Inc. as a copywriter and CM planner. Retired in 2016, self-described as a "youthful unemployed person," and began freelance writing online. His writing spans diverse topics—film, literature, music, art, photography, employment—earning him a passionate readership. In 2020, he founded the publishing company "Hironobu & Co., Inc." His books include "Just Write What You Want to Read" and "Meet and Talk" (both published by Diamond Inc.).
Yukio Hashiguchi: Creative Director and Copywriter at Dentsu Inc. Recent notable works include Lotte Ghana Chocolate, "World Down Syndrome Day" newspaper ads, Demae-can, SKY PerfecTV! Sakai Councilman series, and the 25th Anniversary poster for "Onihei Hankachō." Author of "100-Idea Thinking" and "Word Diet." Member of TCC. Hobbies include watching movies and combat sports. https://twitter.com/yukio8494

"I think self-introductions are the most difficult ritual in the world" (Yukio Hashiguchi)

At the start of the webinar, Hashiguchi opened by saying he wanted to explore how we interact with others, focusing on Tanaka's recent book "Meeting and Talking." "I've always been bad at self-introductions," he said. "No matter what I say, I feel like it'll fall flat. Or rather, it definitely will."

Many readers probably felt the same way. From there, a rapid-fire series of questions flew from Hashiguchi to Tanaka.

"For example, sometimes I just want to make small talk, but before I know it, I'm conducting an interview—or rather, interrogating someone. What exactly is going on here?"

"A certain manga artist once pointed out, 'Otaku people are usually quiet, but once they start talking, they become super talkative.' I thought, 'Yeah, that makes sense.' I'm not particularly good at talking myself, but I find myself becoming quite talkative once something gets me going. I guess I'm afraid of creating moments of silence. I get this feeling that I have to somehow keep the conversation going, and I end up spinning my wheels. What exactly is going on here?"
 
In response to Hashiguchi's barrage of questions, Tanaka offered a comment from an unexpected angle. "What's important in conversation is the sound of the moment. Like the BGM playing in a coffee shop. For example, when you're on a date with your girlfriend, even without exchanging words, just sharing that pleasant BGM together lets you share a comfortable time."

Ah, "sound," I thought. Many veteran comedians point out that in manzai comedy, the most crucial element isn't speaking technique, but the "pacing." That moment of letting go. Wondering what will come next. How will this story be wrapped up? It's that sense of anticipation that draws the audience into the world of the comedians' verbal artistry. This unexpected opening remark came from Tanaka, who started his career as a copywriter.

"Please tell us about knowledge, distance, and reaction." (Yukio Hashiguchi)

Mr. Hashiguchi points out that the key points of Mr. Tanaka's recent book, "Meeting and Talking," lie in "knowledge, distance, and reaction."

"Conversation, unlike presentations, can't be prepared for, right? Unlike meetings or discussions, it has no clear purpose or goal. That's why we get so flustered. When we were students, we enjoyed aimless chatter with friends without any specific preparation or purpose. Yet, the older we get, the more awkward small talk becomes. Like, 'Um... how do you even do small talk again?'"

Tanaka responded, "So those three points are the main themes this time? I'll explain them in order, but regarding reactions, here's how I see it. Except for athletes with incredible physical abilities or scientists with extraordinary talent, most people are shaped by who they are today based on what someone said to them and how they responded."

This isn't a book that "makes you good at conversation"; it's a book that liberates you from the very concept of being "good" or "bad" at conversation. (Mr. Hashiguchi)

 

"People who state the obvious truth get disliked." (Yasunobu Tanaka)

That perspective was refreshing, says Hashiguchi. "Usually, we build ourselves up through knowledge, experience, and skills, achieving results and accomplishments, and how well we can showcase those. We think that's how we're evaluated by others, right? But then one day, my son told me, 'Dad, you know a lot, but conversations with you don't flow,' and I was stunned (wry smile). People who struggle with conversation use their knowledge to end the conversation."

Tanaka says, "People who think offering solutions is what conversation is all about tend to be disliked. For example, when a female friend confides, 'Things aren't going well with my boyfriend lately,' you might blurt out, 'Just do this!' or even, 'Why not just break up!' But that's not why she's talking to you—she doesn't want solutions or sound advice."

According to Tanaka, people who insist on spouting the "right answer" are ultimately just talking about themselves. They're using the other person's question as a chance to show off their knowledge and achievements. Hashiguchi's comment on this was striking: "That's exactly right. It's the same with my interactions with my son. Knowledge actually creates distance between people."

"We should talk about what we can see right now" (Yasunobu Tanaka)

Hashiguchi says this aversion to "self-centered talk" applies to advertising too. "The more a client wants to sell a product, the more they want to highlight its merits. We ad creators also desperately want people to understand those merits. But ultimately, that's just 'self-centered talk,' and before you know it, people are turning away. This is also a warning to myself."

In response, Tanaka said, "The body copy I like starts with trivial, relatable 'small talk' that anyone can connect with. But as you read on, it properly connects back to the product or company. When it's told that way, I personally become a fan of that product or company."

According to Tanaka, conversation works best when it focuses on "what both people are seeing right now." When you're on a date with her, saying "That's a big cloud" or "That's a lovely teacup" conveys your feelings perfectly. If you then launch into a long-winded lecture about clouds or ceramics, it's not only pointless, but you'll just creep her out.

"Try adding 'I don't know' at the end of your conversation" (Yasunobu Tanaka)

Tanaka argues that the misconception that "closing the distance and getting closer to someone increases familiarity" is what messes up all communication. This applies to marital relationships, relationships with children, workplace sexual harassment and power harassment... everything. "The characteristic of people who want to close the distance, in a word, is that they have a strong desire for self-display."

Mr. Hashiguchi agreed. "Going back to the topic of struggling with opening self-introductions, they always end up being either 'bragging,' 'a lame joke,' or 'humble-bragging' – there's no winning formula. Whichever approach you choose, it's a manifestation of that self-display desire Mr. Tanaka mentioned. This one thing is truly an eternal challenge."

To Mr. Hashiguchi, Mr. Tanaka, originally from Osaka, offered this advice: "Let me tell you one good method. Just tacking on 'I don't know' at the end of your conversation can surprisingly make things go smoothly. Instead of stating 'I'm this kind of person,' 'I have this much knowledge,' or 'I want to do this,' maintaining a distance like 'What do you think? I don't know' mysteriously brings you closer to the other person."

Tanaka's insight revealed one of the mechanisms behind uniquely Japanese communication techniques.

This series is edited from the content of the webinar titled "Frontiers of Language," supervised by its organizer and MC, Mr. Yukio Hashiguchi (CXCC Bureau), and presented from Dentsu Inc.'s unique perspective.

[Participants Wanted]
"Frontiers of Language" Vol.7 Webinar Scheduled for March 14 (Mon)!
Daisuke Inoue × Yukio Hashiguchi: "What Words Do Marketers Use to Live Like Marketers?"

Guest: Daisuke Inoue, author of "Live Like a Marketer" and Head of Media Strategy at SoftBank's Communications Division. Inoue has built his career at prestigious companies like Unilever, Audi, and Yahoo, and continues to share insights as an influencer with 30,000 followers. Yet, he reflects, "I'm aware I don't possess any special talents" and "I used to be an incompetent employee who was a burden." That's precisely why he practices the marketer's way of life: pursuing meeting others' expectations rather than expressing himself. We explore the "wisdom for living" through marketing that Inoue advocates, focusing on the aspect of "words."

・Date & Time: Monday, March 14, 8:00 PM - 9:30 PM
・Participation Fee: ¥1,500 (excluding tax)

Register here
https://bb220314a.peatix.com/