Learning Copywriting from the "Marketer's Mindset"

Yukio Hashiguchi, Creative Director/Copywriter at Dentsu Inc. He invites "masters of words" active in worlds entirely separate from advertising. This series re-edits the content of his bimonthly webinars from an editorial perspective. Guided by Hashiguchi's perspective that "new things always arrive with new words," we delve deeper into the power of language and its possibilities.
 
In this seventh installment, we explore the power and appeal of copy through a conversation between Daisuke Inoue, a marketer active primarily at foreign companies, and Hashiguchi. Marketers and creatives. While their relationship is often perceived as somewhat antagonistic, this dialogue revealed unexpected insights.

Written by: Web Dentsu Inc. Editorial Department

Daisuke Inoue: General Manager, Media Division, Communications Headquarters, SoftBank Corp. Previously held digital & mass marketing manager roles at Audi, Unilever, Air New Zealand, etc. Joined Yahoo Japan Corp. before assuming current position. Author of "Live Like a Marketer" and "Practical Guide to Digital Marketing." https://twitter.com/pianonoki
Mr. Yukio Hashiguchi: Creative Director and Copywriter at Dentsu Inc. Notable works include Lotte Ghana Chocolate, "World Down Syndrome Day" newspaper ads, Demae-can, SKY PerfecTV! Sakai Councilman series, and the 25th Anniversary poster for "Onihei Hankachō." Author of "100-Idea Thinking" and "Word Diet." Member of TCC. Hobbies include watching movies and combat sports. https://twitter.com/yukio8494

"What you like and what the world likes are different" (Daisuke Inoue)

At the start of the conversation, Mr. Hashiguchi shared a passage from a post Mr. Inoue had made on social media: "What makes you happy isn't 'what you truly want to do,' but 'what everyone wants you to do.' Your true calling is precisely what the most people want you, and no one else, to do."

Inoue, now 44, once dreamed of being a musician. "I was in this really edgy band that had zero mainstream appeal. But I didn't have the talent to get that recognized. It was painful, but ultimately, I was the one who came to that conclusion."

In response to Inoue's confession, Hashiguchi said, "I myself DJed in Roppongi during my student days. I also wrote promotional copy at a record store back then. Looking back now, that might have been the origin of my work as a copywriter."

Inoue added, "Back then, you couldn't even listen to samples. You had to buy based on the jacket visuals and copy. But in a way, that experience might be what led both Mr. Hashiguchi and me to our current work."

A photo from my college days at a certain spot in Roppongi. (Mr. Hashiguchi)

"Popular content polarizes" (Daisuke Inoue)

Shifting from music, Inoue mentioned this: "It's slightly off-topic from mainstream appeal versus avant-garde, but I think popular content today polarizes into shallow and deep. It's not about which is better or worse; both have their merits. Plus, the same person might consume shallow content at one time and deep content another.

Shallow content is like short videos, while deep content is something like the 'MCU' (*). The latter has complex settings that aren't easy to get into, but once you're in, you can immerse yourself."

In response to this point, Hashiguchi replied, "I suppose some kind of adhesive is needed to bridge the gap between shallow and deep. Characters might be one such adhesive."

Inoue responded: "I think many mega-hit anime have both shallow and deep elements coexisting. The background settings and world-building are deep. On the other hand, the characters have such strong impact that even kids who've never seen it before can 'play pretend' with them – that's the shallow appeal. Characters are like 'personality' for idols, right?"

Hashiguchi described it as "something incredibly appealing, like a friend." "Recently popular idol groups have this characteristic where the members are really close. And they share that on social media. Seeing that makes you feel like you're part of the group too, and you just end up supporting them."

※MCU (Marvel Cinematic Universe): A collection of superhero films and other works produced by Marvel Studios in the United States.
 

 

"Personality and performance are now one and the same" (Yukio Hashiguchi)

From the topic of idols, Hashiguchi-san expands: "I think this applies to product development and advertising too. Personality and performance are now one and the same."

We've heard brand theory ad nauseam, but his explanation makes it clear. Indeed, when buying something, performance factors like function, price, or taste are important, but I feel we're also drawn to the "personality" of the product or company, choosing our favorites from among countless similar items.

"What impressed me at a popular group's audition was that 'personality' was listed as a judging criterion alongside singing and dancing," points out Inoue. "In this era, your true self inevitably comes through on social media. That's why the appeal of someone's personality directly translates into their appeal as a celebrity. This might also apply to the 'personality' of companies and products."

This book teaches the fundamental mindset for business professionals across all industries. (Mr. Hashiguchi) It advocates a way of life where you become someone who is "needed" – not merely "used" or "dependent on" – and can thus shine even without a specific "dream." (Mr. Inoue)

 

"No one wants to be persuaded" (Daisuke Inoue)

The conversation shifted from personality to presentation techniques. "What people who regularly speak to large audiences have in common is that they speak with emotion," Inoue pointed out. It's not just about "data," "facts," or "logic"—they weave emotion into it.

When giving presentations, people tend to try to persuade. But imagine this: when choosing appliances, do you ever want a salesperson to persuade you? You'd dislike a pushy salesperson, right? Conversely, if they shared a story like, "I loved this product so much I sent it to my mother back home. She was absolutely thrilled..." – that grabs your heart.

"I understand, I understand," says Hashiguchi. "It's exactly the same in advertising production. They say the 'gut-feel' approach works better than the persuasion approach." "Indeed, you hardly ever see persuasion-based TV commercials, do you?" replies Inoue.

"There is a technique called 'straight talk' where you directly state the product's benefits. But why is it specifically called 'straight talk'? I think it's because the more common approach is one that appeals to emotion, and therefore doesn't convey the product's benefits directly."

"Plans that get unanimous approval don't tend to be well-received in the real world." (Daisuke Inoue)

"Don't you find that plans unanimously approved in meetings often end up failing? That might be because they end up resembling a persuasion approach," says Inoue.

"It creates an atmosphere like, 'Isn't it great? Right? Right? Everyone thinks it's fantastic. So, come on, you should like it too.' When opposing opinions arise, the project leader becomes mindful of the recipient's feeling of not wanting to be persuaded during the heated debate in the meeting room."

"I can relate to that. It's something we all tend to do, isn't it? But how do we prevent it?" In response to Hashiguchi's final question, Inoue replied:

"I think it really comes down to having a dialogue with the other person. Specifically, it means formulating hypotheses and then discussing them with the other person beforehand. Think of it like conducting consumer interviews before creating a product. If you genuinely want to make someone happy, you shouldn't be trying to impose your views or persuade them. It's only human to feel anxious, wondering, 'Is this okay? Will they be happy with this?' I think it's better to use that anxiety as a tool."

This series is edited from the content of the webinar titled "Frontiers of Language," supervised by its organizer and MC, Yukio Hashiguchi (CXCC Bureau), and presented from Dentsu Inc.'s unique perspective.