The Future of Indie Games and Young Creators

Indie games, created by individuals or small teams, are sparking a major movement, particularly overseas. However, within Japan, factors like market structure present challenges such as "difficulty nurturing young creators" and "challenges monetizing, including global expansion."

To address these challenges, Phoenixx was established in 2019. Guided by its " Creators-centric " philosophy, Phoenixx operates an indie game publishing business and provides hands-on support for nurturing young game creators, including production and PR support, all the way to business development.

Dentsu Inc. is actively contributing to the further development of the indie game sector. This includes launching the Dentsu Group-wide creative team " Dentsu Game Center" focused on games in 2023, and supporting "Fushigi no Gensōkyō -FORESIGHT-," distributed by Phoenixx on May 15, 2024.

Phoenixx CEO Kazunori Sakamoto and Mitsuhiro Ito, who launched Dentsu Game Center, discussed the current state and challenges of the indie game industry, its future potential, and the significance of nurturing young creators.

Fascinated by the world of indie games, where individuality shines like in a music band

Ito: First, allow me a brief introduction. As a Creative Director, I typically work across various fields, but in 2023, I launched Dentsu Game Center, a cross-group creative team specializing in games. By gathering creators well-versed in games from our creative division, assigning the optimal talent to each game project, and building new methodologies, we aim to contribute to the further growth of the game industry.

Sakamoto: I'm Sakamoto from Phoenixx. Our company was established in 2019 by taking over the business from Sony Music Entertainment's indie game label "UNTIES." We operate an indie game publishing business that encompasses everything from discovering and nurturing indie game creators to providing comprehensive support—including production and PR—to help creators succeed globally. Our team members have extensive experience in games, music, and the entertainment industry, with strengths in connections across platforms and cross-media development.

Ito: Could you tell us what led you to get involved in the game industry, Mr. Sakamoto?

Sakamoto: Originally, I worked at Sony Music Entertainment as a music director, handling tasks like song promotion, production, and A&R. But then, suddenly, all the artists I was managing disbanded at once, leaving me with a lot of free time (laughs). That's when I got involved with subscription-based music streaming services for platforms like PlayStation 3 and PlayStation Vita, which became my entry point into the game industry. Later, while working on launching new IPs across the Sony Group, I also became involved in game projects.

Phoenixx Kazunori Sakamoto

Sakamoto: Within that, what got me hooked on indie games was attending "BitSummit," Japan's largest indie game event held annually in Kyoto. The venue had rows of tables, each with a team of about two or three people showcasing their games. When I talked to them, they clearly defined their roles in game development: "I handle programming," "He does the art."

When you're working on big titles at large companies, it's often hard to see exactly what each person is doing, right? Indie games, on the other hand, are like music bands—creativity emerges in a way that lets you see each individual's personality. I found that difference fascinating.

Ito: I see. That difference is definitely there.

To expand creators' potential, we provide thorough support for an environment focused on game development

Sakamoto: As I became interested in indie games and researched them more deeply, challenges also became apparent. For example, back then, creators making amazing indie games would get various offers, including approaches from major companies that made both the creators and their parents happy. Even if the contracts were quite restrictive, the creators would think, "I'll never get another chance like this!" and gladly sign. What happens next is that these creators treat that game as their "graduation project" and move on to work at major game companies without continuing their independent development.

Of course, I think that story is a wonderful life choice. However, looking overseas, countries like the US and Europe were already supporting indie creators' livelihoods and providing environments where they could focus on game development. Creators there would release their first game, gather user feedback, and then move on to releasing their second and third titles. I felt a sense of crisis that this difference could lead to a significant gap between Japanese and overseas indie creators.

Ito: Did that sense of urgency lead to the launch of UNTIES, the predecessor to Phoenixx?

Dentsu Inc. Mitsuhiro Ito

Sakamoto: Yes. By providing support around game production—negotiations, progress management, PR, etc.—we aimed to create an environment where creators could pour their talent and passion entirely into game development. And if launching on three platforms instead of one brought in three times the revenue, creators might choose alternatives to employment. We launched UNTIES driven by a desire to expand creators' possibilities.

Ito: How did you manage to launch that business at Sony, a major platform provider?

Sakamoto: It was incredibly tough (laughs). But thanks to the efforts of Mr. Mizuno, who was President of Sony Music Entertainment at the time, we managed to launch in 2017. For about two years after that, we focused on supporting creators and securing title contracts. However, balancing UNTIES within the broader context of the group's overall game business became increasingly difficult.

But after genuinely engaging with creators and building trust, suddenly disappearing unilaterally would hurt them. After thoroughly considering what to do, I concluded that I should leave the company and continue the UNTIES project with the staff from that time.

Ito: So, following that journey, you launched Phoenixx in 2019. Is discovering and managing creators, along with indie game publishing, still your main business today?

Sakamoto: That's correct. Since 2023, we've also been planning and running the indie game event " TOKYO INDIE GAMES SUMMIT," co-hosted with Musashino City, Tokyo. We hold it hoping it will become a place where creators can present their work and interact with users and fellow creators, and where users can discover and experience new games and creators. We envision it as a space where creators, fans, and the local community unite to foster new possibilities.

Ito: It's a hugely successful event, isn't it? I recall seeing not only passionate game fans but also many local and nearby residents attending.

Sakamoto: Perhaps due to Kichijoji's character, many families attended, and creators seemed genuinely delighted to receive feedback from children who played their games. We also collaborate with major international events like Europe's largest gaming expo, "gamescom," and the "Taipei Game Show," focusing on creating opportunities for creators to spread their wings globally from TOKYO INDIE GAMES SUMMIT.

Ito: That must be a huge motivator for creators.

In an era where anyone can release indie games, meeting the expectations of discerning users demands high quality.

Ito: In recent years, the game market has seen remarkable growth both domestically and internationally, with the global game market size reaching 26.8005 trillion yen in 2022. Furthermore, with indie games producing global hits, the potential of indie games seems to be expanding even more. How do you see the current state and future of the indie game industry, Mr. Sakamoto?

Sakamoto: You're absolutely right. The current state of indie games is very bright, and I believe the future is equally promising. Previously, indie games were played within a closed world by dedicated fans. Now, through platforms like Steam, creators can reach a broad global audience with their games.

Releasing a game used to be incredibly difficult. Some platforms wouldn't allow releases unless you were a corporation, and debugging could involve being repeatedly rejected by the platform's QA (Quality Assurance) team, with that back-and-forth alone taking up a significant amount of time. Of course, helping developers smoothly pass debugging is still one of our jobs, but even so, the barrier is much lower now. This has led to a tremendous surge in new games being released.

Ito: Indie games making it into the top 10 on platform rankings, for example, really shows how much more visible they've become. We're seeing record-breaking hits too, right?

Sakamoto: Yes, indie games hitting it big has happened before, but it was a once-a-year occurrence, if that, globally. Now, just domestically, we see one or two hits a year. I think the background to this is, first, the widespread adoption of Steam, and also, the platforms themselves have formed indie game teams and started actively supporting publishers and developers.

Ito: It's become a dream era for young creators too, hasn't it?

Sakamoto: However, while I still believe the future is bright, I also feel it's becoming a world where success isn't easily attainable for just anyone. While there are more places to distribute indie games, users have become more discerning. Games might make it onto wishlists but never get downloaded. Or they get played but returned within two hours. Once negative reviews spread, it's incredibly difficult to recover from that. That's precisely why I believe it's crucial to conduct extensive playtesting before release and aim for the most polished state possible.

Ito: So, while improving the game's quality itself is essential, adapting to each platform's requirements also seems vital.

Sakamoto: Exactly. Our team even has a genius debugger who passes every test in one go (laughs).

Release and feedback are essential for a creator's growth

Ito: That's incredibly reassuring. Sakamoto-san, you provide such diverse support. Are there any tips for nurturing creators' talents and abilities?

Sakamoto: It really varies from person to person. For example, even with the programming for " Mysterious Fantasy World -FORESIGHT-," each programmer has different backgrounds and strengths. For each of them, it's just that little spark or the path they've walked that has shaped who they are today.

Mysterious Fantasy World -FORESIGHT-
The latest entry in the Touhou Project fan game dungeon exploration RPG series. Taking a fresh approach from its predecessor, it pursues classic "dungeon exploration RPG" elements while also considering users unfamiliar with the genre. It incorporates numerous game systems designed with accessibility and ease of play in mind.
Platform: Steam / Release Date: May 15, 2024 (Wednesday) / Developer: AQUASTYLE
©Shanghainese Alice Gensokyo ©Phoenixx
Developed by AQUASTYLE × ankaa studio

Sakamoto: Another thing I always tell creators is, " Don't call yourself a creator until you've released something." I believe you can only truly call yourself a creator once you've released your work and received evaluations and feedback from users. Creators grow and new ideas emerge by listening to various voices, both positive and negative. Experiencing that process is what makes the next game you create more interesting.

Ito: In that sense, supporting the environment and motivation to keep creating without giving up after just one attempt seems crucial too.

Sakamoto: It's extremely important. Music is the same, right? If you keep at it without giving up, that moment where it suddenly clicks can arrive. Things can change just by switching members, bringing in a planner, or altering your promotional approach.

Ito: Actually, my son recently joined a game company straight out of college. He used to make his own games and release them on app stores. As we discussed earlier, I wonder if the ways game creators develop their skills and find opportunities to grow are a bit different from typical business professionals. I'm a bit worried about him (laughs).

Sakamoto: I don't think joining a major game company is a bad choice at all. Being involved in games made with a 5 billion yen budget is an experience you simply can't get in the indie game world. Also, there are cases where people hone their skills and experience at a major game company, then create high-quality indie games after work or on weekends. I think it's great that there are many paths. If your son is already making games, I hope he keeps creating.

Genuinely supporting creators right now is what will shape the future of Japanese creators

Ito: Mr. Sakamoto, what drives your passion for supporting creators from such a creator-centric perspective?

Sakamoto: I myself often managed rock bands. Back then, driven by the desire to break into the US and UK markets, we did overseas tours and participated in international events, but we couldn't overcome the global barriers.

Perhaps it's precisely because of that experience that I've come to share the dream of creators spreading their wings from Japan to the world. The truth is, the game creators right in front of us possess talent and potential that can truly compete globally. If we don't support these creators, who are like treasures, there is no future for Japanese creators.

Japan is still respected worldwide as a sacred place for game content. And while inheriting the context of Japanese game content, they're creating new games by blending their own culture and passion. If we don't seriously support Japanese creators right here and now, we might suddenly be left behind by the world.

Ito: I understand. Japan's domestic gaming population reached 54 million in 2022, so the market size is certainly not small. Content is diversifying too—beyond home consoles, we have app games, PC games, and new content, including indie games, emerging constantly.

However, from a business perspective, the challenge of differentiating the constant stream of new games and effectively appealing to diversifying genres and play environments is growing. The key demand is how to achieve communication strategies optimized for each content's unique personality. At Dentsu Game Center, we aim to tackle these challenges by building a database of 200 creative professionals deeply knowledgeable about diverse games.

Sakamoto: Gathering 200 creators who love games is quite impressive, isn't it?

Ito: Our original goal was to build a database of creative talent knowledgeable in the gaming field, so we surveyed all our creative staff. What we got back from those 200 creatives was an incredible amount of passion. The survey included not just multiple-choice questions but also several free-response sections, and those answer fields were completely filled with text (laughs).

Sakamoto: The kind that spills right out of the cell borders, huh?

Ito: Exactly. I thought the text was cut off, so I clicked to see more, only to find an insane amount of text pouring out about their favorite IPs and their passion for games (laughs).

Sakamoto: That's the real deal (laughs).

Ito: Exactly. It wasn't just people with vast knowledge and passion for IPs; we were also surprised to find quite a few who could actually make games using Unity or Unreal Engine. Neither the clients nor we internally knew such talent existed. We thought if we could network these people, they could contribute even more to the game industry.

Sakamoto: I get it. I've been involved since my Sony days, and I always thought that with such a wealth of talent out there, there must be tons of people knowledgeable about not just major IPs, but underground ones too. I'd think, "Somewhere out there, someone will hear my story and go absolutely wild" (laughs). And having people who can actually build things is great, right? You could even form a team of two or three from the group and start making indie games. Do you have a physical space like an arcade?

Ito: No, it's a virtual organization for now, but we're seriously considering building one.

Sakamoto: Game creators are surprisingly analog, I guess. Sometimes nothing gets done unless they meet in person. At our company too, depending on the creator's personality, we sometimes consciously increase opportunities to meet face-to-face.

Ito: Precisely because games can be made silently by just a few people, getting feedback from outsiders is incredibly important.

Sakamoto: Indie game creators often have few chances to meet other creators or people in the game industry. But precisely because they're indie creators, they likely have many gaps in their knowledge. Even just getting a single piece of advice from someone can be incredibly stimulating.

Ito: That could lead to further quality improvements or speeding up the process. Or it might help them discover missing pieces they need.

Sakamoto: I think so. While there are rare creators who can do everything alone, usually there are missing pieces: someone who can make UI but can't draw art, who can program but can't compose music, who can create concepts but can't plan. I've seen many people fail trying to find those missing pieces on social media. Supporting the right matching there might also be necessary for indie games to take the next step.

Ito: So it's about increasing opportunities for "encounters." Arcades are essentially a culture of encountering others, right? They're places where you meet and collide with others. Similarly, creating a space where creators and people in the game industry can meet, create something, or take something back with them—I thought that might be something we should be doing.

Sakamoto: Exactly. Having creators bring their in-development games for everyone present to play and provide feedback is definitely a viable approach.

Ito: That's something we definitely want to make happen. Hearing your thoughts today, Sakamoto, has made me realize anew the appeal and immense potential of indie games, while also making me want to think about what we can do. Looking forward to continuing our collaboration!