Yusuke Wada (Bokete) × Yasuhiro Tsuchiya: Part 1 "How to Make Yusuke-be"

In this episode of "One-Click Radius," planner Yasuhiro Tsuchiya spoke with Yusuke Wada, known as "Yusuke-B," who serves as CTO at Omoroki Inc., the company behind the popular web service " Bokete." In the first part, Mr. Wada shared his journey from starting to build websites himself to the birth of "Bokete."

Combining CD sales rankings with YouTube

Tsuchiya: Yusuke and I went to the same university, and I remember you were already programming and shooting videos back then. Can you tell us how you got from there to creating the current "Bokete"?

Wada: After graduating from grad school, I started a company called Wadit with my father. We thought about what business to pursue. Since making money with video is tough with a small team, we decided to focus on websites or the systems behind them. The great thing about programming is you only need an editor and a browser to check it. Unlike video, there's no rendering wait time (laughs).

Tsuchiya: So initially, you were taking on website projects for various companies?

Wada: Yes. But it was for places like boutiques run by acquaintances' aunts (laughs). We'd go out pitching, "How about online shopping?" There was a period where it just wasn't working out at all. But then, I started publishing websites I'd made myself, unrelated to work. Gradually, my personal presence grew, and I started getting more requests like, "Can you make something like this?"

Tsuchiya: Around 2006? You were making all kinds of things back then! Did any of them feel particularly promising?

Wada: Back then, mashups—combining different services and content—were really popular. I thought, "If I combine CD sales ranking data with YouTube, I could automatically generate a web-based ranking show like the ones on TV." When I actually tried it, it turned out really compelling. At the time, the culture and practice of watching promotional videos on YouTube wasn't as common as it is now, so it became quite a talking point.

Tsuchiya: I see. Nowadays, it's commonplace for artists to upload their own videos to YouTube when releasing new songs to reach a wider audience, but back then, few did that themselves.

Wada: That's right. So, in a way, this project feels like a very modern concept. I thought it was simply a good thing that people could discover songs online, buy CDs if they liked them, go to live shows, and that opportunities to encounter music itself would increase.

Tsuchiya: Did you monetize this?

Wada: Not really, but there was a company that wanted to "buy" the service itself. It fell through, though.

Tsuchiya: Wow! "We'll buy the whole service!" So you must have had significant traffic.

Wada: I think we had quite a lot of unique users.

Tsuchiya: Did you analyze who was using it?

Wada: Back then, we didn't have analytics tools, so we didn't do that. But we did receive an award from a magazine called 'Net Runner'. From what I heard, it seemed to be viewed more by housewives and ordinary people than what you'd call core internet users.

By sharing information, I avoided being the loner at study groups

Tsuchiya: Back then, you were already sharing stories like "Here's how I built this" on your blog, right? I remember programmers gathering there to exchange information. Did that lead to any professional opportunities?

Wada: Even now, blogs have tremendous influence. Since my blog was mainly read by engineers, it didn't directly lead to jobs, but it did create a network of peers – people I could turn to when stuck. Beyond that, there was also this dynamic of engineers looking up to each other or being looked up to. Having role models and those kinds of relationships really fueled my motivation to learn. Around Tokyo, there are tons of study groups for engineers. Someone created this "IT Study Group Calendar" on Google Calendar, and if you look at it, on certain days there were over ten events listed.

Tsuchiya: That many!? You host study sessions yourself, right, Wada-kun?

Wada: Yeah, I do. Just recently, I rented a space at Shibuya Hikarie and held a study session for about 80 people. It included several talks—some 20 minutes, some 10 minutes, some 5 minutes—followed by a networking session.

Tsuchiya: So study groups come in different types, like by programming language or field?

Wada: There are ones by language, and then there are various study groups based on the type of database server.

Tsuchiya: I see. So there are specialized worlds for each one.

Wada: On a broader scale, there's an event called "DevSummit (Developers Summit)." Until recently, it leaned more towards enterprise, but now it's moving closer to web development. Last time, I participated in a keynote-like role.

Tsuchiya: So web-related study groups are increasing.

Wada: It's inevitable. Like gaming, every field is now inevitably connected to the web, so web-related study groups are incredibly popular.

Tsuchiya: So, by creating web services, making friends through blogging, and participating in or organizing these study groups, your presence as "Yusuke-B" started to emerge?

Wada: Yeah. Whether it's blogging or Twitter, if you keep at it, you don't end up alone at study groups (laughs). If you suddenly show up at a study group, you think, "I have to actively strike up conversations!" But if you announce you're going to a study group on your blog or Twitter, people will come up to you saying things like, "You're the one who wrote that article, right?" or "I read that article!"

Tsuchiya: It becomes like a business card.

Wada: Exactly. On the flip side, if you don't have the habit of blogging or tweeting, or if your company restricts your ability to share information, it gets tough.

Tsuchiya: That's definitely true. If someone isn't sharing information, you have no idea what they're good at, what they're interested in, or what kind of person they are. Nowadays, all kinds of companies, organizations, and individuals host study groups. When engineers interact within those groups, opportunities for job changes can naturally arise through those study sessions.

Wada: There's a term called the "information superhighway," but for companies, these study sessions are also a "HR superhighway."

Tsuchiya: If they find out a highly regarded engineer is available, they'll naturally ask, "Would you consider joining our company?"

Wada: I actually know someone who declared themselves a free agent on their blog and got a huge number of offers. That person had published all their source code—their actual work. By contributing to open source, they let others see their true capabilities.

Tsuchiya: If you publish your source code on a platform like GitHub (a web service supporting software development projects), sending just that URL lets people see, "Oh, this person created that library!"

Wada: There's even a legend about a top-notch engineer whose resume was just a single line: a URL listing all the libraries they'd developed.

Tsuchiya: One URL! It's like, "Just look at it and you know." You can tell their skills are solid! Then it's like, "Try fileting this fish." Sounds like a wandering life. Just carrying a keyboard and traveling around Japan... (laughs).

Wada: It really is that kind of world.

Building services using information already out there

Tsuchiya: At companies developing web services, I imagine talented engineers gather and work together on development. But Wada-kun, when you were building web services, did you develop them alone?

Wada: Back then, I did it all by myself. So eventually, I couldn't maintain it anymore and had to say, "Sorry, I'm quitting" (laughs).

Tsuchiya: You also developed a site for men before, right?

Wada: I still maintain that one.

Tsuchiya: That one also pulls files from various sites' servers to create rankings, right?

Wada: Originally, sites introducing videos and blogs had a problem with lots of deceptive links designed to lead users to ads. So, I developed a system that effectively linked actress information with videos on video-sharing sites, and used that to build a database.

Tsuchiya: I see. So you created a site that efficiently extracts and lists only legitimate links, excluding the deceptive ones.

Wada: Exactly. What we'd call curation today.

Tsuchiya: Definitely (laughs). So for the source sites and blogs, you manually curate reliable sources—kind of like creating a whitelist?

Wada: That would be difficult and time-consuming, wouldn't it? So, first, we created a system to automatically generate a list of actress names. One method is to use data from Wikipedia, for example. Then, we search Google Blog Search and Twitter for articles mentioning those actress names.

Tsuchiya: I see. You automatically crawl and continuously train it. That's really clear.

Wada: Nowadays, services like "SmartNews," "Gunosy," and even "Naver Summary" focus less on creating information and more on how to present it, when to present it, and what kind of experience to provide. I think there's a trend toward building services by organizing information that already exists in the world.

Tsuchiya: That "mashup" approach Wada-kun mentioned earlier is fundamentally about combining existing data, articles, or naturally growing lists from other services to create new value, right?

Wada: For example, you could create a rather shady site that just picks up what everyone wants from a bookmark service and does affiliate marketing (laughs).

Tsuchiya: So the idea of constantly monitoring information flows to identify trends and automating that process is easier to turn into a service?

Wada: But honestly, other people's information is hard to control, and if it gets boring, it really is boring. It might not become killer content, so monetization is tough.

Bokete as a site creating primary sources on the web

Tsuchiya: So, I'd like to hear about "Bokete," the company you run, Wada-kun. First, when did "Bokete" start?

Wada: It was launched in September 2008 by a separate company called "Omoroki," not the one I mentioned earlier that I co-founded with my father. My friend since university, Omoroki's CEO Takeshi Kamada, and I holed up in an apartment in Yokohama and built it in about two months.

Tsuchiya: You built it in just two months!?

Wada: I think you can build something in about two months. "Bokete" is a web service where users create content. You can post a prompt image, and then people post funny captions for it. For example, if there's a photo of Mrs. Clinton pointing her finger and staring wide-eyed, you might add a caption like, "Hey, she's not saying 'UNO'!"

That's a pretty energetic joke (laughs). "Bokete" is a CGM (Consumer-Generated Media) service where users constantly create jokes like this and everyone rates them. While the services I'd made before organized and displayed other people's content, "Bokete" is essentially a site for creating primary sources of information.

Tsuchiya: Why did you decide to start Bokete in the first place?

Wada: It was incredibly simple. After launching Omoroki with Kamata, we thought, "Hey, we should make something together..." Though saying it like that sounds kinda creepy (laughs). We first talked about what would be fun to create, then implemented the ideas that came up.

Tsuchiya: Were you always into comedy and improv?

Wada: I like it too, but Kamada absolutely loves it. Back in college, he recorded every single variety show. The idea for Bokete itself is pretty similar to "Hitori Gotsu" or "Bokemashou," right?

Tsuchiya: How many people are in Omoroki now?

Wada: Omoroki itself has six members, and I'm the only engineer. When things get bigger, you need management, right? We hate that. So we make Omoroki members people who can fully handle their own responsibilities, and we work with a specialized app development company as partners and an advertising-related company. It's not a client-contractor relationship; it's revenue sharing. We really value doing things as completely equal partners.

Tsuchiya: The "Bokete" app is popular too, right? How many downloads does the app have now?

Wada: It's around 4 million downloads now. Combined web and app page views exceed 200 million monthly, with 90% coming from the app.

Tsuchiya: By the way, where do you get the source images for the jokes?

Wada: Primarily, users submit images they've taken themselves. Additionally, we now allow the use of images from Flickr under Creative Commons (CC) licenses.

Tsuchiya: You also collaborate with various companies, right?

Wada: That's right. We get companies to provide photos, and users come up with jokes for them. If the joke is funny, everyone sees it, so it becomes advertising. That's the package we offer.

Tsuchiya: I see. If genuinely funny content emerges, the images naturally spread, making it suitable for campaign purposes too.

Wada: Kodansha's "D Morning" has been a long-term partner. Since "Chairman Shima Kosaku" is serialized in "D Morning," we can use Shima Kosaku images—which are rights-free—for everyone to make jokes with (laughs).

Tsuchiya: That's fun (laughs).

Wada: The editors are really enthusiastic about it and eagerly provide us with material. We also have a collaboration with Miyazaki Prefecture. It links up with interesting spots in Miyazaki.

(To be continued)