Yusuke Wada (Bokete) × Yasuhiro Tsuchiya: Part 2 "Web-Native Humor"

Following Part 1, planner Yasuhiro Tsuchiya interviews Yusuke Wada, known as "Yusuke-be" from " Bokete." What's behind "Bokete's" global expansion (!), and why does Wada host a podcast!?

One day, traffic suddenly surged 6-7 times

Tsuchiya: Hearing about the app downloads and page views, I'm struck again by how impressive it is. Was "Bokete" popular right from its launch?

Wada: Actually, from its launch in 2008 until 2012, traffic stayed low for four years. Kamata would delete problematic images daily, I handled maintenance... other than that, we basically left it alone. We even discussed selling the service itself at one point. Then, from May 12th to 13th, 2012—I remember the exact date—my phone started buzzing nonstop with emails saying "Bokete's server load is crazy!" At first, I thought it was a server issue, but when I checked the access logs, the numbers were insane. Then I looked at Google Analytics, and the traffic was like six or seven times higher than usual...

Tsuchiya: That must have been pretty exciting! What triggered it?

Wada: It got featured on a 2channel summary site, and almost simultaneously, it got featured on Naver Summary. For years, our core users had been steadily building up interesting content within Bokete. Then one day, it got recognized by these curation sites, and traffic just exploded. There's this phenomenon called the "Slashdot effect" where traffic spikes temporarily when something becomes a hot topic, but it usually drops off quickly. This time, though, the traffic didn't drop off at all after it became popular. So we immediately scaled up our servers and programs to handle the increased traffic.

Tsuchiya: I see, so it really took off all at once. And then you released the mobile app afterward, right?

Wada: Yes. To build the mobile app, we established a partnership structure. That went well, and we released the iPhone app in October of that year. That further boosted traffic.

Tsuchiya: When did monetization start to work well?

Wada: We started placing ads on the website and mobile app and collaborating with companies around May of the following year. That's when I felt "Bokete" had finally become a service capable of generating business.

Tsuchiya: Looking at "Bokete" now, it's surprising to think it was underground for four whole years after launch.

Wada: We even held offline meetups during that time (laughs). We'd set up flipboards with photos and pens, basically saying, "Please make jokes!"

Tsuchiya: So "Bokete" actually happened in real life (laughs). How many people showed up?

Wada: About 20 people, I think. We held several offline meetups during those four underground years. We also published a book.

Tsuchiya: Oh, right, they were sold at convenience stores.

Wada: The first one was a convenience store book, and then the tankobon series went up to Volume 3.

Tsuchiya: Releasing a series means it was pretty popular, right? So there were core fans during those four years.

Wada: That's right. You might think fewer users means less fun, but that's definitely not the case. It just gets more and more interesting as you keep going. I think services like CGM are best viewed with a long-term perspective.

Tsuchiya: Did you see any dilution of the high-quality humor from the core users as the user base grew?

Wada: The quality didn't decline, but I think the nature of the humor changed. After the mobile app launched, more kids and students started using it, so naturally, there was an increase in jokes based on anime and manga art.

Tsuchiya: Before, it had a bit more of a dark humor vibe...

Wada: Compared to now, it had a slightly more surreal feel.

"Bokete" is a service that brings laughter and healing

Tsuchiya: People who post jokes kind of remind me of those late-night radio show letter writers. Have any of them become famous, or are famous people actually posting?

Wada: I've actually heard copywriters post. And comedians really go all out.

Tsuchiya: So it's kind of like testing their skills.

Wada: Coming up with prompts is fun too. When lots of jokes get posted in response, it feels great to get replies. But you really need a certain sense of humor. Like, the prompts I come up with never get any jokes, yet the girl sitting next to me posted a photo with just a picture of sweet shrimp, and it got tons of jokes.

Tsuchiya: So the person who posts the topic and the person who makes the jokes are different?

Wada: Technically, you can set your own challenge and make your own jokes, but it tends to be somewhat separated.

Tsuchiya: Watching "Bokete" for a while makes you want to join in somehow—by coming up with funny jokes, providing material, or whatever (laughs).

Wada: "Boke" aimed for "laughter," but recently Kamada and I were talking about how "wait, maybe it's not just about laughter, but also healing." Internally, we have the slogan: "Boke is a service that brings both laughter and healing."

Tsuchiya: I get it. When something sad happens, seeing "Bokete" just makes you laugh no matter what.

Wada: I once spoke briefly at a job-hunting seminar, and a girl came up to me saying, "I absolutely love Bokete!" When I asked how she found it, she said, "I was crying all the time after a breakup, and a friend sent me a funny image—it was from Bokete." Hearing that made me incredibly happy.

Tsuchiya: Ah, that's such a nice story...

Wada: That might have been the happiest moment for me while running "Bokete."

People seek laughter at 11 PM

Tsuchiya: How do you want to develop "Bokete" going forward?

Wada: What I'd like to try is going global.

Tsuchiya: "Bokete" goes global!

Wada: I really want to do this. What makes Americans laugh? What about Chinese people? Koreans? French people? It's not ethnology, but I want to know.

Tsuchiya: That's true. I'd love to see a lineup of "Hall of Fame Jokes" from countries around the world.

Wada: If we tried to handle all countries on the same site, it would probably get messy. So I think it'd be better to create separate versions, like a dedicated one for the US.

Tsuchiya: True. Beyond just language differences, there are probably differences in the features each culture demands, right?

Wada: Right. We currently have our own login authentication, but if we're going global, I think using Facebook as the login key is probably essential.

Tsuchiya: I'm really curious to see what kind of jokes people from different countries will create using that frame. I can't wait to see it.

Wada: We're still in the research phase, but preparations have started. I think it'll take about a year before it takes shape.

Tsuchiya: Are there any services overseas like "Bokete"?

Wada: For funny images, yes. Like 9GAG.

Tsuchiya: Ah, funny image sites have been around forever. But you don't really see anything like Oogiri, do you?

Wada: I believe "web-native humor" didn't exist until Bokete came along. For example, there were TV-produced laughs uploaded to YouTube, but there was no platform where humor was born uniquely on the web. With Bokete, I think we created a platform where web-native humor truly emerges.

Tsuchiya: That's definitely true. If we're talking about adding comments to existing images or videos, Niconico Douga is similar, but it's more about "everyone poking fun at the video," right?

Wada: Yeah, it's similar but different.

Tsuchiya: With "Bokete," the one-to-one relationship between the prompt and the joke is what makes it interesting. By the way, does the "Hall of Fame" on "Bokete" only show recent entries?

Wada: Yes. The Hall of Fame calculation logic targets jokes made within the last year, so there are many past masterpieces that have been buried. We're currently considering how to unearth and showcase them.

Tsuchiya: Content this sharp and funny never gets old, so it's crucial to figure out how to showcase past content without letting it get buried. The newest stuff isn't always the funniest.

Wada: I'm thinking we should gather past data and create a 'Bokete Chronicle'.

Tsuchiya: "Boke Chronicle"! Since there's a lot of current events humor, it would be interesting to see things like, "Oh, in July 2014, everyone was making jokes with this image," or view popular images chronologically.

Wada: We're currently building a system to accumulate and analyze data. If it works well, we could uncover interesting insights. For example, we might start to see when jokes tend to get more engagement. That would allow us to offer consulting to collaborating companies.

Tsuchiya: I see. We might even figure out when people are seeking laughter.

Wada: Looking at page views, people seek laughter at 11 PM.

Tsuchiya: 11 PM!?

Wada: The difference between weekday and weekend PVs is very clear. On weekdays, it spikes at noon. People are watching during their lunch break. On weekends, the midday spike is flat and indistinguishable. But 11 PM spikes regardless of whether it's a weekday or weekend.

Tsuchiya: 11 PM... that reminds me of the old "Telephone Hour" (*). That feeling when chat rooms started getting busy around 11 PM. Even now, with constant internet access being the norm and smartphone apps available, 11 PM is still the peak time.

※Teleho Time: Refers to the period from 11 PM to 8 AM when communication fees were flat-rate under the "Teleho Dai" service, popular back when dial-up internet was the main connection method.

 

Wada: I think 11 PM is probably when people are checking their phones before bed.

Tsuchiya: I see!

Lately, I've been enjoying a monthly podcast.

Tsuchiya: Any trends online catching your attention lately?

Wada: You know how everyone shares articles on social media these days? It feels like they're forcing this overly high-minded sense of value on you, and I'm not really into that.

Tsuchiya: True. I'd rather see genuine reactions like "Glad I bought this CD today" than shared lists like "10 Quotes to Read When You're Tired of Work."

Wada: It's concerning how sharing has become so prevalent while original content is dwindling. On the flip side, what's been fun lately is the monthly podcast Kamada and I do—it's actually pretty enjoyable.

Tsuchiya: A podcast, of all things!

Wada: It's really fun because we're aware people are listening, sharing updates about our lives, and just talking about silly stuff.

Tsuchiya: If you want to broadcast chatter, there's Ustream or NicoNico Live, so why podcasts?

Wada: The main reason is the post-production process. I'm not an audio pro, so I just tweak the sound by feel, but going through the steps of converting it to MP3 and uploading it to the server... it feels like creating a finished piece.

Tsuchiya: That "final package" feeling.

Wada: Exactly. Plus, the system is interesting—you have the web and RSS, and if the MP3 is linked there, anyone can distribute it. Creating the audio source yourself and handling all the distribution gives you this independent feeling, which is fun.

Tsuchiya: It's kind of like making doujinshi, isn't it?

Wada: Probably close. It's fun not being dependent on a platform and doing everything yourself.

Tsuchiya: With blogs, you can search by keywords, but podcast content is audio, so you can't search it yet, right? That makes it hard to find later, so it's a once-in-a-lifetime encounter. I actually like that fleeting quality.

Wada: Exactly, we also think that fleeting, non-searchable quality is good.

Visualizing Communication

Tsuchiya: In this series, I've had the chance to talk with many people who are deeply knowledgeable about the internet. I get the impression that quite a few of them are starting to feel a sort of "slow internet" vibe. Like, "Blogs are interesting precisely because they're not Twitter or Facebook," or Wada-kun's point that "podcasts are interesting." I find it really fascinating how everyone seems to be trying to get to "the other side where you can't search with Google."

Wada: Speaking of that, take healthcare apps where you weigh yourself and the data goes to the cloud, but only you can see it. While there's this trend of sharing everything nowadays, there's also this approach where things go online but only you can access them. I think that's an interesting trend.

Tsuchiya: Life logs should just be life logs; there's no need to force them to be social. If a health app told me, "Here's a friend with the same blood pressure as you," I'd be like, "Huh?" (laughs).

Wada: Yeah, that would be awkward (laughs).

Tsuchiya: Changing the subject a bit, but recently Facebook Messenger added that feature where if you long-press the "Like" button, the size of the sticker grows based on how long you press it, right? That felt like a glimpse of the future.

Wada: Implementing that in the UI is pretty interesting.

Tsuchiya: The idea of considering how hard you click or tap the screen is something we haven't really seen before. But with this mechanism, you can convey the "strength" of pressing the "Like" button. It's a simple tweak, but it significantly increases the amount of information conveyed by just this button compared to before.

Wada: Like LINE stickers, I guess we're seeing communication increasingly shift towards images.

Tsuchiya: Stickers are meant to speed up communication through images, right? Adding text to a sticker expands the range of information you can convey. I have a feeling we'll see more mixed communication—images combined with text—like sending a sticker with a comment. That's the "Bokete" vibe.

Wada: We definitely want to implement that on Bokete. Even now, the Bokete app has a feature to save "boke" – essentially photos with text – as stamp-like images. In the next version, we plan to let users send those images directly to LINE. We recently tracked how much Bokete content gets shared on Facebook, Twitter, and LINE, and found everyone sends it to LINE.

Tsuchiya: So they're sending it privately as a message, not sharing it on social media. Or maybe they're using it to collect funny stuff within a group.

Wada: Exactly. There are people using internet technology not to connect widely, but to share information within closed groups—doing something that's not really "internet-like." I think there's a huge possibility that something is happening out there, in places we don't even know about.

Tsuchiya: Exactly. The "web" we see on our computers isn't the entirety of the internet. "Bokete" content gets shared in these previously unknown spaces, and people find their way to "Bokete" through that. That kind of flow is only going to increase, right?

Thank you for today. I'm looking forward to BokeTe's global expansion!