Shinichi Abe × Shusaku Hirota: Work Techniques for People Who Work Freely While Belonging to an Organization

In this era of rapid change, where predicting the near future is impossible, we must find new roles and ways of working within society ourselves, rather than following precedent or convention. Shusaku Hirota from Dentsu Inc.'s Platform Business Bureau goes to hear from those who are finding and practicing such new ways of working, not limited to the advertising industry.

Leveraging his background in engineering, Shusaku Hirota analyzes consumer needs and information diffusion patterns from social data. He further applies these insights to communication activities and creative development. Currently within Dentsu Inc., he is pioneering a new work style called "Communication Planner." For this discussion, Hirota chose sociologist Masahiro Abe as his conversation partner. Abe has researched youth culture and ways of working and living in regional areas. His recent book , "The 'Unconventional' People" (Kadokawa SSC Shinsho), focuses on individuals who maintain freedom in their work while belonging to organizations. Hirota asks Abe about his intentions behind this focus and why he is paying attention to organizations now.

Theme① Why do organizations feel interesting now?

Abe: The common debate, as seen in discussions about "corporate slaves," tends to frame individual freedom and oppression as a binary opposition. It's easy to understand and resonates well. It's the worldview of Yasushi Akimoto's lyrics, rebelling against societal order (laughs). Akimoto's lyrics express an incredibly modern, contemporary view of society: "Even if people point fingers at me, I'll live freely." Why does it resonate? Because it's easy to understand. It's especially appealing to middle and high school students with little social experience, who haven't worked in a company. That's a model from a bygone era; things are completely different now. But students haven't worked, so they don't understand, and organizations seem like these massive evil empires.

Hirota: So large organizations appear as oppressive mechanisms against the individual.

Abe: Because it's easy to understand, the media stirs it up, promoting this idea of a free, countercultural way of life.

Realistically, you can't get a job thinking that way, and times have changed. If you look at how people actually work in companies today, being an organizational player is naturally expected as long as it's a company. However, I wanted to point out that even within such companies, there are places where people like the "oddballs" Robert B. Reich talks about can thrive.

──Abe-san's focus on organizations stemmed from a desire to change students' perspectives on "how to work" and an inherent interest in their inherent excellence.

Theme② The Proper Approach to Scholarship

Abe: This leads to the question of how to hack within an organization. To draw an analogy from academia, scholars lacking a solid foundation are inevitably looked down upon.

Hirota: There's this assumption that foundational practice is painful, and some people feel that's oppressive.

Abe: It's incredibly oppressive. During those two years of graduate school, you're constantly being grilled by professors and seniors asking, "What's the point of this?" or "What's new about this?" If you try to say you want to study freely at a time like that, you're told there's no such thing as freedom.

Hirota: It might be similar to Dentsu Inc.'s training (laughs).

Abe: That's the correct way to approach scholarship. First, they hammer into you that there's no such thing as freedom. Then, after being thoroughly beaten down, the question is whether you can make your next move. If you can make that move, it will likely be interesting, and since it's built on what you've been beaten into accepting, you probably won't make any wildly off-base moves afterward either. Ultimately, even considering the individual, I think the time spent building a foundation is necessary to sustain a long scholarly career.

Hearing about Dentsu Inc.'s training, I sensed something similar. First, you must deeply understand that you are not free—that you exist within Dentsu Inc.'s culture. Then, you figure out how to express your own identity from there. The first few years as a working adult are about paying your dues. Even people who were eccentrics in high school or university, doing incredibly interesting things, face intense organizational pressure once they enter the workforce. After being molded as an organizational member for about ten years, when they finally emerge, the experiences from their eccentric student days come into play. That's why I find the current generation of baby boomers' children so interesting – those who went through that foundational period are finally stepping onto the main stage. In that sense, I also feel there's a significant difference between those who gained attention in their youth before building that foundation and those who blossomed after establishing it.

──Mr. Abe emphasizes the importance of building a foundation while understanding the lack of freedom and enduring organizational constraints. And it seems this principle holds true whether in academia or corporate settings.

Theme③ What Makes a Good Organization

Hirota: Professor Abe, what kind of organization do you think is a good one?

Abe: A good organization is a strong organization. If we're talking about good or bad, I think the best organization in the world is probably the one created by the local toughs in my hometown of Gifu—in terms of being a comfortable place to be. The toughs in Gifu gather, and they all think along the same lines.

Hirota: Yee-haw! That sort of thing.

Abe: Gathering and shouting "Woo-hoo!" is probably the most comfortable. Since they think alike, communication is easy. But Gifu delinquents have extremely low productivity. They don't create anything new, so they can't innovate.

Thinking about it that way, just being comfortable isn't enough to build a strong organization. A strong organization probably needs tension, proper internal competition, and diversity, right?

Hirota: Comfort and strength might not be compatible. Some level of tension is necessary, right?

Abe: They don't coexist.

──Mr. Abe, who says a good organization is like a Gifu tough guy. Yet he also stated that a comfortable environment alone doesn't make a strong organization, asserting that comfort and strength are incompatible.

Theme④ Stance as an Advertising Agency

Hirota: Right now, people in the ad industry are saying, "Mild yankies are driving new consumption, so let's target them," and I think that's a bit too simplistic. I sense irresponsibility in this tendency to label specific demographics, then cheer "Hooray!" whenever they show consumption potential. Essentially, I see two approaches: one is simply identifying needs and catering to them, while the other involves communicating a vision for how we should shape society. This raises questions about the stance and approach of those involved in advertising. Given how much we talk about "value creation," we also need to clarify what we actually consider valuable.

Abe: The mild yankii demographic, especially young men, is extremely authoritarian, xenophobic, and narrow-minded. Their voting behavior leans conservative, aligning strongly with LDP-style politics. This structure is probably similar to rural America. Liberal ideas rarely emerge from such places.

Employees of Dentsu Inc. tend to be highly educated and liberal-minded. The question is whether they should descend to the mild-yankee level to sell products, or whether they should present a different vision to guide them toward a better path. This depends entirely on what the company aims to achieve.

Academics can criticize companies based on certain political convictions, but for an advertising agency working alongside companies to sell products, that's difficult. Within that stance, how much critical spirit can be embedded when creating ads? I think that depends on how many people with real backbone emerge going forward.

Hirota: Thank you very much for today. We heard some truly excellent insights at the end.

For the full interview, visit Adtai!