Expanding "Imagination and Creativity" (Part 2)

To commemorate the second book publication ( Dentsu Design Talk Vol. 2, published by Asahi Shimbun Publications) of the talk event series "Dentsu Design Talk" hosted by Dentsu Inc. since 2005, three figures featured in the book—AR trio members Tomu Kawada, Seiichi Saito of Rhizomatiks, and Yoshimitsu Sawamoto of Dentsu Inc.—gathered at Dentsu Hall on December 17, 2014. Kawada, who continuously outputs unique ideas as a technology developer; Saito, who combines space and technology to create diverse experiential projects; and Sawamoto, a top-runner in advertising creativity, mutually inspired each other and discussed ways to expand advertising communication. Here is the second part. (Part 1 is here )

Recognizing Our Own Awkwardness

Sawamoto: Mr. Kawada, you come up with various projects yourself, but how do advertising requests come to you?

Kawada: When I created that AR video featuring idols before, the agency approached me directly. They had the original concept ("Kanji-based Computing" – like holding your phone over the kanji for "morning" and "daughter" to make Morning Musume appear) and had shown it on TV without permission. Then agency staff stormed in. I was freaking out thinking, "This is how you get blacklisted in showbiz..." But then they said, "We've got new girls debuting soon and want to leave everything to you." What sets us apart from folks like Rhizoma is that we show our faces. Technicians showing their faces is actually a hindrance. But people can't connect emotionally with something expressionless, so you really need to put a face to new technology. Even though it was an idol commercial, we appeared larger than the idols themselves. I thought fans might get angry, but instead, everyone was supportive, saying things like, "Thanks for your help back then." It made me realize showing your face isn't a bad thing. Through activities like that, we started getting more offers along the lines of, "These guys have great ideas, let's just go with them!"

Sawamoto: What originally prompted you to create the "AR Three Brothers"?

Kawada: AR was the closest to what I wanted to do. But since nobody knew what AR was, I thought it'd be funny to deliberately call it the "Three Brothers" and have three guys line up wearing the same outfits. Back in the day, we'd seriously give presentations at press conferences, but even though it was amazing tech, the reporters looked incredibly bored. I felt kind of bad about it. So, when we made it comedic, everyone started watching intently. That shift in quality was insane. Since we started the Three Brothers, I haven't had a moment to spare. Without this, things would have been dicey.

Sawamoto: Are there people following in the footsteps of the AR Three Brothers?

Kawada: Not at all. I think that's because we have this fundamental uncoolness. People probably think, "Why is a programmer shooting beams in front of people?" I was really struck by what you said earlier, Sawamoto-san. At the start of the book ( Dentsu Inc. Design Talk Vol. 2 ), I said, "Ads that scream 'This is an ad!' are lame." But since ads are inherently flashy, there's this perception that just being an ad creator makes you cool. That's a misunderstanding. I also think ads that try to assert themselves as art are incredibly lame. Earlier, Mr. Sawamoto said "advertising is intrusive." Without that awareness, isn't it dangerous when expanding? Not just advertising, but TV and radio too. I think Mr. Sawamoto possesses that awareness.

Sawamoto: Aligning with my own aesthetic isn't the right answer, so I explore every time. Even if I think, "Saying this much will make me look lame," or "This feels a bit too clever, like something an old guy would say," those lines are the ones that stick. Surprisingly, the things I think are really good often get overlooked, so I'm more driven to create something that leaves a lasting impression.

 

Let's expand radio

Kawada: Let's talk about radio. Sawamoto-san hosts "Sawamoto & Gonpachi's It'll Be Over Soon" on TOKYO FM, and I'm the navigator (Tuesdays) for "THE HANGOUT" on J-WAVE.

Sawamoto: We want to expand radio, right? I think if radio suddenly appeared here today, everyone would be really surprised. It can instantly broadcast sound to an unspecified number of people. People aren't listening just because the creators are old guys, but if teens or twentysomethings made it, or if we could revive radio by teaming up with Kawada-san or Saito-san, I think it would be really interesting.

Kawada: I think radio has two paths forward. Right now, taxi drivers and other drivers make up the overwhelming majority of listeners, but TOKYO FM's "SCHOOL OF LOCK!" is popular with young people. I think that's because they introduced a theme never seen before in radio: "school." Comedians are the principals, musicians are the instructors, and the clever booking really works. There's still so much that doesn't exist on radio. Another thing I think is needed is more "radio-like entities." Like content you can only hear in a specific place, or different things you hear depending on the location. It could be literary historical sites, or hearing something tied to the locations you pass through while commuting on the subway... Embedding content into time and distance, so going there and listening happen simultaneously. Radio can't do that now, but I think that's a radio-like entity.

Saito: If we build a system to broadcast sound, we could do so much more. I'm also part of the radio generation. I made a commercial once before, and I've been thinking about whether sound could be a catalyst for communication. Japanese people are shy and find it hard to speak to strangers. But imagine if trumpet sounds came from me on the street, and guitar sounds came from someone else over there—if everyone made sounds and became an orchestra, people might at least nod to each other. Linking radio to that. Communication like, "Sorry about the noise... we're synced up. Hello." Radio has huge potential for that. The more you dig into radio, the more things seem to emerge.

Kawada: I want to do a "Drive-Out Theater" where the story progresses as you drive. You follow radio instructions to drive, and along the way, say, Mitsushima Hikari gets in. You know it's her through the sound. Then she tells you to go to this place or that, and she talks the whole time you're driving. There are hints in what she says. As you drive, more people get in, or you get kidnapped along the way, and the story unfolds. I'd love to try something like that.

Sawamoto: These are all ideas I never would have thought of myself. What's great about advertising is how much you can absorb. The fun part is being able to incorporate new technologies under the banner of advertising.

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You can also read the interview here on Adtai!

Planning & Production: Dentsu Inc. Event & Space Design Bureau, Aki Kanahara