Psychology Can Be Used Even More in Business!: DaiGo (Part 1)

In the seventh installment of "Going to Meet the People I Want to Meet!", Fumi Hitoto from Dentsu Inc.’s Event & Space Design Bureau met with mentalist DaiGo. DaiGo has recently been applying his knowledge of psychology to business development and corporate consulting. Hitoto explored the potential for connecting mentalism with her own interests in artificial intelligence research and communication strategies aimed at "enhancing experiential value."

Interview by: Aki Kanahara, Dentsu Inc. Event & Space Design Bureau

The purpose of life is "maximizing knowledge"

Nitta: I’ve formed project teams focused on artificial intelligence, and currently, as part of the Experience Technology Division within Dentsu Inc.’s Event & Space Design Bureau, I’m exploring technological initiatives to enhance the experiential value of events and spaces.

There are four reasons why I wanted to meet DaiGo. First, because he has researched artificial intelligence. Second, because he is actively putting real-world experiential value into practice. Third, as a mentalist, he understands the power of the subconscious—whether you call it subliminal or subconscious. Finally, since DaiGo has read a vast number of academic papers, I’m hopeful that there might be some overlap between his work and Dentsu Inc.’s projects in the realms of business and academia.

DaiGo: I see. My life’s purpose is “maximizing knowledge,” and I originally thought I wanted to live my life simply by reading books nonstop. The first decision I made in college was to not participate in job hunting. So I figured I had no choice but to stay in academia to do research or start something on my own.
At university, I didn’t study the algorithm-based research that’s been all the rage lately; instead, I studied materials science and conducted research on metals—specifically, magnetic materials.

Hito: Metals? Wow!

DaiGo: The metal I was researching at Keio University’s Faculty of Science and Technology, called a spin glass, is a mixture of magnetic and non-magnetic materials. Normally, a magnet only has the property of pointing up or down, so it can only take on the values 0 or 1. However, in the case of a spin glass, it’s like a three-dimensional box filled with manganese particles, and since the magnets are pointing in all sorts of directions, it can take on countless values.

With binary memory, if there are four magnets lined up, it’s 2 ways × 2 ways × 2 ways × 2 ways, so you can only record 16 different pieces of information, right? However, with a spin glass, theoretically, the spins of the atoms can point in any direction. In other words, the storage capacity is infinite. This is called “multi-level memory.”

Another interesting feature is its “network memory” property, where each individual manganese atom in the magnetic material is connected through interactions. If you forcefully move a manganese atom in a different direction, the movement of that single atom causes the other atoms to spin around as well. This is called “spin interaction.” Neural networks possess a similar energy structure mathematically.

Nitta: I see. So the mathematical model for this is a neural network.

DaiGo: In other words, it was thought that this could be applied as artificial intelligence capable of thinking like the human brain. Currently, there are various issues, and it’s generally believed that it would be difficult to achieve this as things stand. However, human neurons, when an electrical signal arrives, essentially only have to make the choice of whether to transmit the signal or not, right? Because they form a complex network, the human brain is fundamentally structured the same way as a magnet. It is this three-dimensional interconnection that creates human individuality.

I wanted to create a cyberbrain and transplant myself into it.

DaiGo: But honestly, it wasn’t so much that I wanted to create artificial intelligence—I’m just a huge fan of the anime “Ghost in the Shell.” In fact, I was even debating whether to wear my Ghost in the Shell hoodie today until right before I left the house (laughs).

Nitta: You like *Ghost in the Shell*! There’s currently a project called “Ghost in the Shell REALIZE PROJECT,” and I actually helped out a little with its launch.

DaiGo: Watching *Ghost in the Shell* made me think, “I want to create a cyberbrain.” I wanted to transfer my own brain into it. Since I’ve had so many things I’ve wanted to do since I was a kid, I figured that even if I lived for about 100 years, I’d never be able to accomplish everything I wanted to do before I died. So I thought, if I just transferred myself into a cyberbrain and replaced my body with a cybernetic one, that would be fine.

I still think the same way today. I love acquiring new knowledge, so I feel that if I could stay alive forever and keep learning all sorts of things inside a cyberbrain, that would be enough for me. Because I wanted to build a cyberbrain, I joined a materials science lab in college.

Nitta: When you talk to AI researchers, they’re not pursuing something that’s already been created—they’re pursuing something that hasn’t been created yet. They say that once something is realized, it’s no longer considered artificial intelligence. I think that’s because the inner workings become too obvious. So, were you trying to create a device with infinite storage—something different from the current hard disk mechanism—using a new material that leverages the properties of manganese?

DaiGo: That’s right. Today’s artificial intelligence refers to machines that “behave like humans,” doesn’t it? But that wasn’t what I wanted. I wanted to create a “box to hold the human mind.”

Professor Eiji Saito at Tohoku University’s Institute for Materials Research—he was originally a professor at Keio, and I wanted to join his lab, but he moved to Tohoku University the year I was supposed to enter.My favorite thing he ever said was that the physics we understand is the physics of a vacuum. Since the air around us is almost like a vacuum, we can’t control the laws of physics there. But within the right system—metals, materials—the laws of physics can be controlled if the materials are designed properly. I was deeply moved by his explanation that this means we can actually manipulate the laws of physics.

Nitta: I see. When you appeared on the TV show “Solomon-ryu,” you mentioned that you wanted to physically transfer your brain’s consciousness to a device. Do you think such a mind upload is truly possible?

DaiGo: First of all, the biggest difference between me and ordinary researchers or businesspeople is that I don’t spend much time wondering whether something is possible. I decide what I want to do, and then I keep thinking about how to make it happen.

Nitta: So the question of whether it’s possible or not isn’t really the issue, then.

DaiGo: Exactly. Because if I couldn’t do what I want to do, my life would lose all meaning. If you ask me if there’s any point in surviving in a world where my dreams don’t come true, I don’t think there is. On the contrary, I try not to think that I can’t do it.

I want to use psychology for business and to help people, rather than just for entertainment.

DaiGo: A pure mentalist—someone who relies on psychology or statistics—has very limited capabilities. For example, even when guessing objects, such as a pen or a color, the limit is around eight colors. You can’t pick the right color from hundreds of options like Darren Brown (*1) can.

*1 “Darren Brown”
A British mentalist. He began appearing on television programs around 2000 and caused a sensation by bringing science into the world of mentalism—a field often shrouded in suspicion—and revealing the techniques behind the tricks.

Nitta: Can Darren Brown really do that?

DaiGo: He’s an entertainer, so he can use tricks. But I don’t find tricks interesting, and I don’t want to do them. I want to use psychology not for entertainment, but in ways that benefit business and people.

I was invited to appear on a TV show called “Another Sky” and visited Oxford University. They let me into all the areas that are normally off-limits to non-students, and I was completely captivated by the experience. The person I interviewed at Oxford was Ms. Helene Fox, who founded the largest neuroscience and psychology research center at the University of Essex. She was conducting research on “Genes and Psychology”—in other words, research into which genes determine human psychology.

It’s often referred to as “rainy brain” versus “sunny brain.” The difference between positive and negative people lies in the serotonin transporter gene—the gene responsible for the reuptake of serotonin, which stabilizes mood.

Actually, I also serve as an advisor for a genetic testing company called Genesis Healthcare (*2), and I was surprised that the very first job I was offered right after returning from Oxford was a PR role for that company. They offer a genetic test called “MySelf,” which I believe is the only one of its kind in Japan—it’s a genetic testing kit that analyzes your personality.

*2 “Genesis Healthcare Co., Ltd.”
The leading testing company in Japan specializing in genetic research and analysis (for both the general public and the medical sector). http://genesis-healthcare.jp/

Generally, due to patent and other legal considerations, Japanese genetic testing companies collect saliva samples in Japan and send them to the United States for analysis. However, this company operates a laboratory in Chiba and can perform all testing domestically. As an advisor, I provide guidance on the best approach for launching new products and, when creating online advertisements, advise on how to use psychology to select copy and colors that will increase response rates.

I also work at a company called Ignis, where we operate a matching service called “with” (*3). While traditional matching services pair people based on factors like annual income or physical appearance, “with” uses psychology to match people who get along well or share similar sensibilities.

*3 “with”
A matching service developed by Ignis under the supervision of DaiGo, applying psychological and statistical methods to provide a user experience that traditional, mechanical matching cannot offer. https://with.is/

<To be continued in Part 2>