Kento Furuichi × Mihoko Nishii: Part 2 "Young People, Don't Fear the Middle-Aged Men at Work"

Following the previous session, we present the second part of the discussion between Wakamon researcher Mihoko Nishii and sociologist Noritoshi Furuichi, who, while also a young person himself, sharply dissects the distortions of modern society and the ways young people live. The first part can be found here.

 

 

Job Hunting and Career Design in Your 20s

Nishi: While we've shifted paradigms from an industrial society, and on the surface it seems the criteria for happiness have changed, you still get high school students who, when asked what career they want, answer, "I want to be a salaryman."

Furuichi: Ultimately, it feels like the only choices available now are becoming a salaryman or becoming a freeter. There are no role models for other ways of living. I think it would be good if the gray-zone ways of working that are actually happening in Japan became more visible.

Nishii: By the way, what kind of things are happening in this gray zone?

Furuichi: Well, it could be weekend entrepreneurship, weekend writing, or even being a part-time farmer and part-time X. I think there are so many possibilities now. Especially since companies have been relaxing their rules on side jobs lately, and working across multiple locations isn't that unusual anymore. The evolution of mobile devices has definitely lowered the infrastructure barriers too.

Nishii: I believe I first reached out to you on Facebook this time too. It's not just social media, but the doors to meeting people you want to meet or doing things you want to do have opened up tremendously. I'm a salaried worker myself, but it feels like more people these days are thinking about their life career, including changing jobs, rather than just focusing on their internal company career...

Furuichi: Honestly, staying at one company for over 40 years feels unnatural. After all, isn't it just a company you happened to join at 22, when you lacked judgment, due to a fluke opportunity, fate, or a series of circumstances?

Nishii: If that's the case, maybe the whole approach to job hunting, where "getting a job" itself becomes the goal, should change going forward. I'm not saying we should completely reject that route, but how do you see job hunting, Furuichi-san?

Furuichi: I think that kind of system, where everyone goes through it together, is a good one that helps people who might otherwise struggle. Even those without skills or experience at that point can get hired by some company after a year of job hunting. In a way, it's a welfare-like system. On the other hand, both companies and students are starting to feel its limitations.

Nishii: In places like the US, there's the internship system, and people in their 20s can freely choose companies. Maybe we could have a system that allows more flexibility, rather than forcing decisions at 18 or 22. But how to broaden these opportunities—is the US model of focusing on the 20s the right approach, or should we think about it over a longer span?

Furuichi: That's why I question whether high school and university truly hold meaning in today's era. In Japan, most high schools are general education tracks. I suspect most parents can only really supervise their kids' homework up to around fifth grade. Doesn't that imply that beyond sixth grade, the knowledge isn't really necessary?

Nishii: True (laughs). Take Germany, for example. Students specialize in specific subjects starting in high school, which naturally leads to university... it's a path of least resistance. While deciding your life path early seems to contradict the idea that your twenties are for trying anything, I wonder what the ultimate answer is.

Furuichi: Japan's labor market and educational institutions are sharply divided now, but I think there could be more middle ground. After all, excelling in IT or certain skills is entirely possible even in high school. Talented individuals could be recruited by Dentsu Inc. during their high school years. Of course, the existing job-hunting route should remain. But increasing alternative paths would inject more dynamism into society.

"Even if inequality grows, it's better if more people feel happy."

Nishii: In your book, Happy Young People in a Country of Despair (Kodansha, 2011), you captured the mindset of today's youth as "no dissatisfaction, but anxiety." Looking further ahead, isn't it possible that not just anxiety, but dissatisfaction will also increase?

Furuichi: I think so. However, while I believe social divisions will only deepen, observing places like China sometimes makes me realize that surprisingly, people can live contentedly even without fulfilling such high-level desires. For example, if they have a smartphone to chat with friends, have conversations, and play games...

Nishii: I see. In Japan's current situation, I feel like a lot of young people are just letting their anxiety grow, thinking they need to find balance, but then shrugging it off with "Oh well." It's like they're losing their imagination.

Furuichi: Back in the day, you could live a perfectly normal life without imagination, but now it's necessary. If people lack imagination, I think part of the reason is what we talked about earlier – the absence of role models. There just aren't people around them who spark that seed of imagination. That's why I genuinely think high schools should switch to a four-day week, and then just let them figure things out for themselves.

Nishii: Ah (laughs). On the other hand, things like the "yutori" education system are often cited as examples of how implementing such policies institutionally ended up creating distortions...

Furuichi: But gaining freedom means inequality will widen. If we can create a society where everyone can find their own unique form of richness, then even if inequality grows, it's better to have more people who feel rich and happy. Yutori education was originally based on that idea. It's been completely labeled a failure by society, but we actually still don't know what the final outcome will be.

Nishii: Exactly. When we interviewed members of the so-called "yutori generation," we sensed their communication skills might actually be improving. While it's not measured by any official metrics, isn't that a skill society should recognize? For example, new employees bringing snacks to break the ice during meetings. Seeing more people capable of such small thoughtful gestures makes me feel it could be a positive direction for the "New Japan."

How to deal with the old men who rule the company

Furuichi: The real problem is the middle-aged men themselves. What do we do with those men who rose to prominence simply by riding the social tide, lacking any imagination whatsoever? That's the bigger issue.

Nishii: When you say "middle-aged men," what age group do you mean in a company context?

Furuichi: Probably in their 40s to 50s. People who joined during the bubble era—this is just my personal impression—just feel different somehow.

Nishii: Even though the bubble generation in their 40s has now pushed the upper limit to around 45, it's true that people from that era tend to be seen as unique. They're often contrasted with the younger generation, but the reality is that these middle-aged men were once young too. So, does it ultimately come down to the fact that they lived through different times?

Furuichi: People who stayed at the same company forever, climbed the ladder under the old system, became big shots with power, but can't adapt to today's world. They were probably amazing workers under the previous paradigm, but that's not what's needed now. You feel this "middle-aged guy problem" everywhere.

Nishii: As a kind of strategy for working alongside these somewhat old-school middle-aged men, is there a weapon young people should equip themselves with?

Furuichi: Ultimately, it's the ability to persuade those influential older men with decision-making power, isn't it? It's about whether you can explain why something is absolutely right in a way they can understand.

Nishii: I agree. It's essential to find a common language between both sides, rather than clashing and giving up on each other by saying "I don't understand what you're talking about." Also, the intermediate generation, which forms a gradient, needs to keep translating constantly...

Furuichi: After all, these old guys aren't going anywhere anytime soon (laughs). If persuasion is tough, find an old guy you click with. The ability to find a senior who understands your perspective and becomes your ally—that's another powerful weapon.

Working without forcing yourself beyond your strengths is the way forward.

Nishii: If you could give advice to young people trying to work positively going forward, what would it be? Some start working at 18 or 22, while many high schoolers are already starting businesses these days.

Furuichi: What can I say... I think it's best to understand what you're good at and what you're not good at. I believe it's important to figure that out through trial and error, as early as possible.

Nishii: That makes sense. Starting without understanding the gap between what you want to do and what you can do feels like a really unfortunate match.

Furuichi: Since we don't know if companies will even last the next 40 years, I think it's more important to find a place where you can be without stress than to cling to one company.

Nishii: Finally, what would be your ideal way of working, Furuichi-san?

Furuichi: My current way of working is ideal... oh, wait, no (laughs). I actually find my current work style incredibly enjoyable. But my house is really messy, and I don't manage to live a so-called "human-like" life—waking up at a set time, exercising, eating three proper meals. So if you ask if I'm happy, I'm not sure. But I'm probably not pushing myself too hard. That's why I think the most ideal and probably happiest state is for as many people as possible to find a way of working that suits them, without forcing themselves.

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【Wakamon Profile】
Dentsu Inc. Youth Research Department (nicknamed Wakamon) is a planning team that engages with the real lives and mindsets of young people, primarily high school and college students. We explore hints to brighten and invigorate the near future, starting from their "now." By anticipating the future through their insights, we realize new businesses that help build better relationships between young people and society. Currently, 14 project members are based across our Tokyo headquarters, Kansai branch, and Chubu branch. We also share updates on the Wakamon Facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/wakamon.dentsu ).