Yoko Oya × Michiko Obata: Dialogue, Part 2 "The drive to keep striving is tied to 'little luxuries' and 'small moments of happiness.'"

Following last time, we present the dialogue between Yoko Oya of the Food Lifestyle Lab and Michiko Obata of Team Wellness. This time, they discuss food and SNS, as well as the "despite context" phenomenon, such as "despite being only 100 yen, it's delicious."

If it doesn't resonate, it won't satisfy your heart; if you don't feel convinced, you won't stick with it.

Oya: If you just want to get your nutrients, supplements are fine. But if you're actually going to eat, it should be delicious, and ideally, you want to engage all five senses.

Obata: I totally get that.

Oya: The reason we crave Pacific saury in autumn isn't to get DHA or eicosapentaenoic acid—it's to "feel the season through eating." There's a trend lately for products with great aromas selling well, and I think that's because "the scent satisfies our emotions." Precisely because we live in an era where everything can be done easily, our fundamental human desire to eat is bringing back this urge to fully engage our five senses.

Obata: Also , more people are going to athletic facilities and participating in marathons these days. Even if they don't exercise regularly, more people want to participate in these activities because they seek the feeling of moving their bodies and the reality that can only be experienced by moving. There are also more athletic facilities that adults can use.

Oya: I feel like freshness and realism are also becoming important in food. Green smoothies are popular, but they're quite a hassle to make. Vegetable salads are easier, but by deliberately making a smoothie, you get a sense of freshness or realism. It's precisely because we live in an era of convenience that people are seeking realism.

Obata: It's about the experience. The experience of making a smoothie itself seems good for the body, like you're doing something good. I think that kind of thing is also being sought after in eating and nutrition.

Oya: This connects back to what we said at the beginning, and I think that's why it makes sense. You might think you understand something after hearing about it, but if it doesn't sink in, it won't satisfy your heart, and if you're not convinced, you won't be able to continue. Probably, people who drink smoothies also feel that they must be good because they experience their freshness and green aroma. When something sinks in, you can continue doing it.

Obata: It leads to the next action, right? Like, "I'll try it again."

Oya: With so much information out there, just choosing becomes tedious and exhausting. So, people end up choosing what resonates with them. I think that's become the selection criterion. Even watching commercials, rather than hearing about some special manufacturing process, patents, or specific ingredients, seeing someone simply enjoying it with relish resonates more deeply. Evidence is important, but commercials that truly appeal to the heart with that sense of deliciousness seem to connect better now.

Sizzle is needed more than talking about functions or ingredients.

Obata: Also, it's not the expert saying it, but the fact that this particular chef is saying it that makes it convincing. That kind of atmosphere is what leads to acceptance.

Ōya: Exactly. It's less about just having an expert's stamp of approval and more about wanting something that makes you go, "Ah, I see."

Obata: People really don't want to fail. That's why they check rankings and reviews to confirm it's definitely safe.

Oya: I agree . While younger people are often said to be especially afraid of failure, it's not just them—anyone spending money wants to avoid it. They want that sense of satisfaction, or that "it looked delicious in the commercial," that personal justification.

Obata: More than just talking about features or ingredients, you need that sizzle factor, right?

Ōya: I think that's the most straightforward way to build trust now. Plus, there are things everyone just believes are healthy without needing an explanation, right? Like eating vegetables – most people unconditionally think it's good for you. Or pickles and natto – since Japanese people have eaten them for ages, they can't be bad. That's not about logic.

Obata: That's certainly true. I also think that information has spread widely since the previous health boom. Today's wellness is not just about being good for the body, but also about having something that lifts your spirits and makes you feel good.

Oya: I agree. I think Japanese people have received a lot of health education. It's amazing that so many people know words like "isoflavone" and "polyphenol."

Obata: There are quite a few foods labeled "vitamin C fortified " or "vitamin E fortified," but if you don't know about them, you don't appreciate their value. The fact that they sell well when labeled that way is because people have knowledge. That's why even people with very unhealthy diets drink milk tea and say, "I'm getting calcium," or have some kind of personal standard.

Things like "I bought it on a whim, but it was delicious" or "It's cheap, but it tastes good."

Oya: Everyone is interested in food and health, and because it appeals to everyone, it's easy to talk about and spread on social media. Other things like "I ran this much today," "I did resistance training," or "I ate corn potage-flavored ice cream" are also easy to post on social media. I think some people run or eat just for that reason.

Obata: Absolutely . And while doing it, they might start thinking, "Hmm, this might actually be good."

Oya: Even people who used to hate waiting in line—now, if they queue up at a pancake place, post a photo, and get reactions like "Looks delicious!" or "I've been wanting to try that too," that alone makes the wait feel worthwhile.

Obata: So food connects people through communication.

Oya: Lately, I think one of the trending keywords is "despite being." Like, "despite being a convenience store, you can get authentic drip coffee," or "despite being canned, it's delicious Thai curry," or "despite being a standing bar, it's authentic French cuisine." When we ask people in our Food Lab surveys, "What meal recently lifted your spirits?" we notice things like "It was delicious despite being something I bought on a whim" or "It was delicious despite being cheap" – basically, those pleasant surprises.

Obata: That sense of getting a good deal really lifts your spirits, doesn't it?

Oya: Plus, stories like "Hey, listen. It's ○○, but it's △△△!" make great conversation starters. Of course, this kind of thing has always existed, but I feel like this trend is more pronounced now.

Obata: Before, if something was healthy, it had to look healthy too. But now, it's accepted with that "but..." context.

Oya: I think that's the level of happiness people are seeking now. It's not about wanting a full course of ultra-luxurious French cuisine, but finding little bits of happiness in everyday, small things. Food is just the right size for giving you a little lift. That sense of happiness, like "It's only a 100-yen coffee, but the aroma is amazing," is what people want, and I think getting that balance right is key.

Obata: It's like a little luxury, right?

Ōya: Exactly . It's closer to a little luxury than a reward for yourself.

Obata: Achieving wellness requires food, exercise, and rest, but I think the "nourishment" part of rest is lacking. Resting and nourishing yourself are separate things. For example, I think it's important to nourish hope for tomorrow or nourish motivation. The energy to push forward tomorrow is tied to little luxuries or small moments of happiness.

Oya: When you indulge in something really extravagant, you end up feeling guilty, right?

Obata: That makes it hard to stay positive, doesn't it?

Oya: Wellness is often thought of as just about physical health, but it originally comes from the "well" in "How are you?" – meaning "I'm well." So it's more about that feeling of being in a good place, mentally and physically. That's why I think it's not just about eating, but really connects to lifting your spirits.

Obata: That's right. Thank you for the insightful conversation today.

Ōya: Thank you very much.